Well, we are talking about a Heron frame sold in shops, and Ted Durant's message, relayed by Sarah, which started this whole thread, would seem to imply that the old price of $700 to $800 wasn't enough to make adequate profit for Waterford, for Ted at Heron and for the shops that sold Heron. The brutal reality is that to support the distribution and retailing channel, you have to slap together TIG welded aluminum frames at high volume and low cost like Trek and Cannondale, so that most of the selling price can go to provide support distribution and give the shops at least some profit. I think the UK builders have the advantage of selling direct as well as the advantage of the strong dollar. Some good US builders can probably compete with Heron by selling direct, though not the very highest quality ones like Sachs, Baylis and Bohemian who lavish much more time on the exquisite detail work on their frames. I do think they can compete with the new Rivendell prices, though. The Rivendell is now $2300, while David Bohm's silver brazed, lugged steel frames start at $1750 AND are painted by Joe Bell or Brain Baylis. For $2300 one can nicely customize a Bohemian, though certainly not with every option David offers. I admire Grant and what he has done at Rivendell, which has been a great service to the classic bike community, but I gotta say, for $2300 David Bohm is gonna get my order instead. Not only that, but once you are willing to pay that kind of money, a Baylis or Sach frame is not far out of reach either, and I'd rather have those than a Rivendell, nice as a Rivendell is.
In addition to the strong dollar and trying to support distribution and retailing, the Heron suffers form not really being a custom frame, so it really doesn't fit the wishes of the Audax buyer who wants to specify rack and mudguard brazeons, a dynamo bracket and internal wiring. But the UK and maybe some US builders will do this for $1000.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Mark A. Perkins wrote:
> I've been reading all of the comments about the Heron compared to the
> Mercian, and I am wondering about something that I think we might be
> overlooking. Please don't jump all over me if I'm wrong, but are we
> comparing purchasing a frameset (Mercian) that is purchased direct from
> the builder, to a frameset (Heron) that has gone through a middle-man
> before being purchased from Rivendell or whomever? I am asking because I
> don't know for sure, but would like to know.
>
> I have seen examples of both close up, and as an amateur frame builder (5
> frames since 1984 - 3 of which I still own and ride) and I have worked as
> a prototype machinist in my past, and I think the Heron is a much cleaner
> product, plus it has a metal head badge which is something most builders
> won't spend the money on these days. Don't get me wrong, I love the
> fancy lugged Mercian bikes too, and wouldn't mind owning one of each of
> these marques.
>
> Are we comparing fresh apples on a tree to fresh apples on a tree, or are
> we comparing fresh apples on the tree to fresh apples that are in the
> store already?
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:32:24 EST OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:
> > In a message dated 1/14/01 2:57:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > moos@penn.com
> > writes:
> >
> > << One thoughtful offlist response was from someone who
> > didn't like the rather steep, in his view, seat angle and rather
> > slack
> > head angle. He liked Grant's design better in terms of angles. >>
> >
> > One important difference is that Mercian (I am pretty sure) and
> > numerous
> > other builders in the UK (and in the USA!) will make any darn
> > angles you
> > want. If the design doesn't make sense to them, they may debate it a
> > little
> > with you but in general these are true customs, not a "take my
> > philosophy or
> > nothing."
> >
> > Dale Brown
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
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