FW: [CR]American framebuilders rule?

(Example: Framebuilders:Tubing)

From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: FW: [CR]American framebuilders rule?
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:36:38 -0400


-----Original Message----- From: Moos, Jerry Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:01 PM To: 'Andy@ADSmith.org.uk' Subject: RE: [CR]American framebuilders rule?

I agree that petrol is not a valid indicator of cost of living. The reason petrol is so expensive in UK and Europe is that it has been massively taxed for decades. While some European politicans and environmentalists now defend the high taxes on environmental grounds, the original intent was to discourage consumption of a comodity of which Europe had almost no production west of Romania (Russia and other former Soviet republics along with Romania produced nearly all of the oil in Europe at the time). The high taxes thus reduced the outflow of cash to foreign nations for oil purchases. The taxes had become a social fixture decades before oil was found in the North Sea. Traditional oil producers like the US, Venezuela, and Saudi Arabia have much lower taxes on petroleum as they have no desire to discourage a domestic industry. Currently, state and federal taxes on gasoline in most US states is around 40¢ to 50¢ per gallon, or about 1/3 the total price. I imagine most Americans have no desire to pay higher gasoline taxes, and consider that quite enough. The higher taxes on petrol in Europe and UK have historically had some originally unintended side effects, like giving Europe the lead in small economical cars, which later came into vogue for a time in the US market. Also, in case Dale is wondering what this has to do with classic bicycles, high fuel taxes encouraged bicycle use in Europe, while inexpensive cars and fuel contributed to the long decline in grassroots US cycling and in the sport which had produced stars like Major Taylor at the end of the 19th century. One of the classic examples of the transformation of sport in the US by the automobile is that of Barney Oldfield. Most Americans know him as a famous early US auto racing driver, who drove Henry Ford's famous "999" prototype before WWI. Few know that Oldfield had already established a considerable reputation as a bicycle racer, but switched to autos as the motorized age dawned. Personally, being a bit of a Libertarian, I oppose forcing people in the US to bicycle by imposing oppressive taxes on gasoline, but prefer to cycle just because it is healthy and fun (at least if I ignore the 5 stitches I took in my elbow from a fall last Sunday).

Regards,

Jerry Moos

-----Original Message----- From: Andy@ADSmith.org.uk [mailto:Andy@ADSmith.org.uk] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:37 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]American framebuiders rule?

>>>From: brucerobbins@worldmailer.com

>>>>From my experience, the cost of living in the UK is considerably higher than in the US. Petrol, to name but one product, is almost $6 a gallon here while average earnings are quite a bit lower.

I really don't think that taking petrol prices as an indicator of cost of living is very valid. American petrol is way too cheap to reflect the damage that petrol does and the costs it's overuse occasions. Mr Bush might be happy with this cheapness, but it doesn't mean it's right. You can subsidise whatever you like, but to then use that as an indicator of a lower cost of living seems a little suspect.

I'm not convinced either way about cost of living in the UK versus US, I just don't know, but possibly the higher earners earn more in the US when compared to the lower earners, and these are the kinds of people who buy custom built frames ? Do unemployed people in the US have as high an income as UK unemployed ? How _is_ cost of living measured. I'm not asking to start an argument, more that I really don't know.

"Middle-class Americans have more disposable income", might be a better way of putting it ?

>>>If the cost of living was lower here, we'd maybe have sufficient disposable income to buy a bike from Richard or Brian.

I'm sure that frame costs have a lot more to do with good old competition. Supply and demand, all that kind of thing. We have, per capita, a lot more custom frame builders in the UK, I'm sure. That should keep prices down.

>>>> There is no need for product liability insurance, >>> This may well be an extra expense for American builders.

Don't know about that one, but I guess you Americans do like suing each other. :-)

Andy

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                Andy Castellano Smith Andy@ADSmith.org.uk | http://www.ADSmith.org.uk ******************************************************