[CR]Benotto ID help

(Example: Books:Ron Kitching)

From: "David Gordon (F)" <dgordon@flashcom.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:10:21 -0700
In-Reply-To: <CATFOODoOWGMhLPBLYd00003071@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]Benotto ID help

I may be able to help here on the Benotto frame ID issue because I actually used to race for the Benotto team back in 1977 when Francisco Moser was the world champion. Yea, cool Jersey design we had. I had several team bikes during that time as well. I had the Champagne colored SL tubing model. They weren't made in Mexico yet, at that time. If you could send me some pictures, I would be glad to ID them for you. The Benotto frames were imported first around 1976 in Miami, Florida area at Dade Cyclery, who sponsored the Coconut Grove Cycling Club and race of the same name. The top racers at the time that placed highly in that race were David Ware (local favorite from Miami), John Howard, Wayne and Dayle Stetina from the Cool Gear/Exxon team. I also won the Tour that year in my division, as I was a Junior. Chris Charmichael (who became Nat'l Team coach) competed in the Senior I & II race as an intermediate and finished in the pack. I can remember watching him spin that 85 inch gear (because of gear restrictions for intermediates) like a mad man. Those were the days!

David "Flash" Gordon Los Angeles, CA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:46 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #455 - 22 msgs

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Any list members near Puyallup, WA 98372 (David Bilenkey) 2. Campy track chainring (David Goerndt) 3. RE: Teledyne questions and appeal (Moos, Jerry) 4. Re: Lost Seller of "58" Bianchi Competizione. (David Van Hook) 5. Re: good deal on some kind of vintage brakes at Nashbar (Gjvinbikes@aol.com) 6. Benotto ID help (Richard Jones-Bamman) 7. Re: Teledyne questions and appeal (Chuck Schmidt) 8. Re: Benotto ID help (KCTOMMY) 9. Re: Benotto ID help (swampmtn) 10. Parts needed for "37" Hetchins (peter naiman) 11. Re: Benotto ID help (OROBOYZ@aol.com) 12. Wright Brothers bike on ebay (gregparker1) 13. Old Aluminium Bicycle Handlebars (CYCLETRUCK@aol.com) 14. Vintage Lightweight Restoration (Richard & Shelvie Robinson) 15. Dating a BSA Chainwheel. (Catherine Lunsmann) 16. What on earth is a Greyhound Saddle? (Catherine Lunsmann) 17. Re: Dating a BSA Chainwheel. (Hilary Stone) 18. Jack Taylor frames for sale. (John Swarbrick) 19. WTB: Mafac Cantilevers (Stewart Barrie) 20. Non Commercial. (John Swarbrick) 21. Re: Benotto ID help (Takao Noda) 22. Re: American frame builders rule? (brucerobbins@worldmailer.com)

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Message: 1 Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:31:57 -0400 From: David Bilenkey <dbilenkey@sympatico.ca> Reply-To: dbilenkey@sympatico.ca Organization: Bilenkey Design Group To: iBOB <internet-bob@lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca>, Classic Rendevous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Re: Any list members near Puyallup, WA 98372

Hi everybody,

Looks like I've already (boy that was fast!) located a helping hand in Ken Stagg, so besides finding out who else is out there, thanks for the other offers of assistance!

David Bilenkey Ottawa, ON

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Message: 2 From: "David Goerndt" <davidg@iag.net> To: "Classic Rendevous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:00:49 -0400 Subject: [CR]Campy track chainring

The Campy track chainring is spoken for, thank you for your interest

David Goerndt

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Message: 3 From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com> To: 'Steve Kurt' <kurtsj@mtco.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, moos@penn.com Subject: RE: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:35:25 -0400

Sounds like the five speed Winner on the Teledyne now is correct, but an Ultra-6 would be a bit too new. That is as I suspected, I don't remember using an Ultra-6 myself until about 1980. It appears the the Blackburn cage is a bit too new also. I could use a new but retro Ale chromed steel cage or perhaps use a handlebar mounted bottle cage. The bar mounted cage would aviod any further damage to the Teledyne decals from cage clamps as Titans did not have bottle cage brazeons. However, the bar mounted cage will obscure the cool engraving on the SR World Champion bars. Decisions, decisions.

Regards,

Jerry Moos

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Kurt [mailto:kurtsj@mtco.com] Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:47 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; moos@penn.com Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal


> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> I've recently completed rebuilding a Teledyne Titan I bought through the
> referral of a list member in January. .....snip.... Also, does anyone
> know when Blackburn began making alloy water bottle cages, i.e. would a
> Blackburn alloy cage be correct on a Teledyne, which ceased production
> about 1976? Also, were SunTour Ultra-6 FWs available in 1976, or only
> in the early 80's as I seem to recall?

digging into the archives, I note that the 1976 Palo Alto catalog lists Sun Tour Pro Compe 5 speed freewheels, but did have 6 speed Regina, Maillard, and Everest freewheels. The 6 speed Regina Titanium freewheel would be just perfect for a Teledyne, albeit pricey ($121 back in 1976). The '75 Bikecology catalog shows 6 speed Sun Tour Winner freewheels, but no mention of Ultra spacing (I didn't get my first Ultra freewheel till 1978). The only alloy cages I can find from the '75 and '76 catalogs are the T.A., Hi-E, Weyless and a Bikecology model. No mention of Blackburn in these catalogs. My 1980 Bike Warehouse catalog (#16) shows the Blackburn racks and an alloy bottle cage. This was the era when Cannondale just made bike bags!

Steve Kurt (catalog archivist, or just a packrat?)

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Message: 4 Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 15:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Van Hook <dvanhook@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Lost Seller of "58" Bianchi Competizione. To: peter naiman <hetchinspete@hotmail.com> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

Uhh...Peter, I was wondering what was taking so long...glad you finally decided to post the whole group!!! I'm the one you sold it to, yeah, it was me, that's the ticket, yeah. Don't send it to that other guy...he's a fraud...that's right, a fake...yeah.... Send it to me right away! I'll be waiting! Dave

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Message: 5 From: Gjvinbikes@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:08:31 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]good deal on some kind of vintage brakes at Nashbar To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

In a message dated 4/7/01 1:49:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Wornoutguy@aol.com writes:


> Closeout item YY-SH-EXAGE-Combo you get a set of Exage brake levers with
> hoods and cables two brake calipers with pads all for $19.99 they are
> single
>

Unfortunately, these are no longer available, and weren't last night either.

Thanks, though !

Anyone need me to bring some Panaracer Pasela 27x1 wire bead tires to the Cirque for them ? Performance (yech) in Chapel Hill, NC has a dwindling stack oozing release compound in their 40%-off room, and I can bring you some on Cirque Saturday in Greensboro for $10 each if I don't have to ship them...

Glenn Jordan - Durham, NC

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Message: 6 Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 20:50:16 -0400 From: Richard Jones-Bamman <banjers@mac.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Benotto ID help

My weekend foray to flea markets yielded a Benotto frame with a few parts and I'm hoping that someone out there might be able to help with a bit of info on the company and possible date/provenance. The first issue is whether the Benottos produced in Mexico are clearly stamped/marked as such. I searched the CR archives and couldn't find any leads on this. This frame has a seattube decal stating "Fabrica Biciclette Torino" leading me to think it's conceivably Italian, but I defer to the experts here on the list. There is also a small decal above declaring "Del Mundo 1977/San Cristobal". The Benotto name (white letters on a dark blue field) is found on the seattube, downtube, headtube and back of the seattube.

The fork is chrome with "Benotto" enscribed on the crown with traces of dark blue paint remaining; the paint is in reasonably good shape and is a dull gold with a slight greenish tint (underline "slight"). Bottom bracket has a clear "B" cutout and another which is more stylized (kind of like deco version of a "B"). There are two separate numbers stamped on the bottom bracket: "61" on the drive side and "1358" placed opposite. The lugs are fairly short pointed; those on the headtube have been additionally modified, forming a pronounced waist before reaching a point. Finally, the chainstays transition from oval to a shape approximating a diamond (or square on its edge) before tapering to the dropouts; the dropouts are Campy, fork and rear. The frame came with a newish Campy headset (I don't know the post SR models so can't identify), a very cool black Gipiemme aero-looking seatpost, and Ofmega cranks; no idea if any of the latter are original.

Curiously enough, there is no sign of a decal/sticker referring to the tubing used, leading me to wonder just what this thing is. If there was one, given the uniform shade of the paint, it must have been removed early in the frame's career, unless this particular metallic paint doesn't fade much.

Anyway, being a complete neophyte with this company's products I was hoping you all might be able to help me at least get a better sense of the relative quality of the frame--maybe even a rough guess as to age? It's going to fit me fine, so I'd like to build it up with components that are approximately period-correct. On the other hand, I paid virtually nothing for it, so I'm prepared to hear the worst.

Sorry for the length of this post, but figured that these were reasonably relevant details. Thanks.

Richard Jones-Bamman Storrs, CT

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Message: 7 Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 18:29:40 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal

Jerry Moos wrote:
>
> Sounds like the five speed Winner on the Teledyne now is correct, but an
> Ultra-6 would be a bit too new. That is as I suspected, I don't remember
> using an Ultra-6 myself until about 1980. It appears the the Blackburn cage
> is a bit too new also. I could use a new but retro Ale chromed steel cage
> or perhaps use a handlebar mounted bottle cage. The bar mounted cage would
> aviod any further damage to the Teledyne decals from cage clamps as Titans
> did not have bottle cage brazeons. However, the bar mounted cage will
> obscure the cool engraving on the SR World Champion bars. Decisions,
> decisions.

I think it is important (only if this is important, of course) to know that these bikes were _the_ cutting edge for a very short time in the mid-1970s and as such would have been outfitted with the cutting edge parts of the same period. They would not have a steel cage or a handlebar mounted cage. As Dave already mentioned, they would be outfitted with some pretty esoteric parts. A lot of the ones I saw in Southern California had a Huret Jubilee rear derailleur for instance (still the lightest rear derailleur). The other thing to remember is that Teledynes would have a _real_ mix of parts, but above all, they would be the lightest parts of the time (whether or not they were any good, of course). The only point of these bikes was weight after all.

Joe Kossak had a great series of articles on components (light weight and otherwise) in Bike World in the mid-70s that you should read.

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

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Message: 8 From: "KCTOMMY" <KCTOMMY@email.msn.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Benotto ID help Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:52:33 -0500

Nice buy! Hope it rides great for you.

I can maybe answer one or two of your questions.

There certainly were top drawer Italian made Benottos in the 70s, so it's hard to say where yours was made. Bennotto sponsered one of the big gun euro teams in the mid 70's, and I always understood those bikes to be euro make. (Asuming Mario didn't make them!) The gold/green paint was the team color, as I recall. The "Fabrica Torino" makes me think Italy, but I can't say for sure because I don't know the Italian labeling laws. The italian componentry and Campy drop outs also makes me think this way, but none of it is conclusive.

To check for tubing type, look down the seat tube or inside the bottom bracket for any tubing seams. If none, then pull the handlebar stem and look for rifling in the fork steerer. If you have seamless tubing and the rifling reinforcements are there, you probably have a top drawer SL frame.

The 77 world championship sticker obviously means the frame is a 78 or newer. If the rear spacing is 120, it would have to be 78 to 80, as 126 mm six speed was sweeping the racing world about this time. Do the drop outs have eyelets? Lack of eyelets indicate a serious racing rig, and perhaps a higher quality bike.

BTW, who was the world champ in 77? I know Moser was riding Benottos early in his career. Did he win the worlds about this time? When did he start having someone make "Moser" bikes?

Tom Adams, in Kansas City

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Jones-Bamman <banjers@mac.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:52 PM Subject: [CR]Benotto ID help


>My weekend foray to flea markets yielded a Benotto frame with a few parts
>and I'm hoping that someone out there might be able to help with a bit of
>info on the company and possible date/provenance. The first issue is
>whether the Benottos produced in Mexico are clearly stamped/marked as such.
>I searched the CR archives and couldn't find any leads on this. This frame
>has a seattube decal stating "Fabrica Biciclette Torino" leading me to think
>it's conceivably Italian, but I defer to the experts here on the list.
>There is also a small decal above declaring "Del Mundo 1977/San Cristobal".
>The Benotto name (white letters on a dark blue field) is found on the
>seattube, downtube, headtube and back of the seattube.
>
>The fork is chrome with "Benotto" enscribed on the crown with traces of dark
>blue paint remaining; the paint is in reasonably good shape and is a dull
>gold with a slight greenish tint (underline "slight"). Bottom bracket has a
>clear "B" cutout and another which is more stylized (kind of like deco
>version of a "B"). There are two separate numbers stamped on the bottom
>bracket: "61" on the drive side and "1358" placed opposite. The lugs are
>fairly short pointed; those on the headtube have been additionally
>modified, forming a pronounced waist before reaching a point. Finally, the
>chainstays transition from oval to a shape approximating a diamond (or
>square on its edge) before tapering to the dropouts; the dropouts are Campy,
>fork and rear. The frame came with a newish Campy headset (I don't know the
>post SR models so can't identify), a very cool black Gipiemme aero-looking
>seatpost, and Ofmega cranks; no idea if any of the latter are original.
>
>Curiously enough, there is no sign of a decal/sticker referring to the
>tubing used, leading me to wonder just what this thing is. If there was
>one, given the uniform shade of the paint, it must have been removed early
>in the frame's career, unless this particular metallic paint doesn't fade
>much.
>
>Anyway, being a complete neophyte with this company's products I was hoping
>you all might be able to help me at least get a better sense of the relative
>quality of the frame--maybe even a rough guess as to age? It's going to fit
>me fine, so I'd like to build it up with components that are approximately
>period-correct. On the other hand, I paid virtually nothing for it, so I'm
>prepared to hear the worst.
>
>Sorry for the length of this post, but figured that these were reasonably
>relevant details. Thanks.
>
>Richard Jones-Bamman
>Storrs, CT
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________

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Message: 9 From: "swampmtn" <swampmtn@siscom.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Benotto ID help Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:40:43 -0400

Moser did indeed win the World Professional Road Championship in 1977, on a "Benotto". He was still on Benotto in 1978... I don't know about 1979, but by 1980 he was riding "Moser" bikes.

1978 - Saronni was riding a Bottecchia, DeVlaeminck was on a Benotto, Battaglin rode an Alan/Guerciotti/Fiorella, Wladimiro Panizza was on a Colner, Walter Godefroot had a Gios, and Marino Basso was riding a Pinarello. What a year!

Aldo Ross 80F and dark in Monroe, Ohio

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Message: 10 From: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:18:52 Subject: [CR]Parts needed for "37" Hetchins

I'm purchasing a 1937 Hetchins Brilliant from the UK and need everthing except a bottom bracket and headset. Thank you, Hetchinspete _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Message: 11 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:28:31 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Benotto ID help To: banjers@mac.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Richard: From your details, I think there is strong hope that your bike may be an Italian produced frame.. To my knowledge, the diamond shaped chain stays were not used on Mexico made frames (Anyone care to tell me I'm wrong on this?) The workmanship and lug shaping would be a big clue but an experienced eye would be needed there. Is that frame a 61 CM, c to c? Those Italian bikes were advertised as being silver brazed which was an unusual claim from an Italian builder...(No mentions as to percentage though.. 2%? Ha!) FWIW, I believe it was the Sanson team that used Benotto for a period (I always liked their jersey design at that time too!)

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina

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Message: 12 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:03:56 -0400 From: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com> To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Wright Brothers bike on ebay

Y'all:

Check out item # 1129477634 on eBay - an 1897 Wright Brothers cycle.

Greg Parker

still warm after a high of 77 degrees F in A2, Michigan today

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Message: 13 From: CYCLETRUCK@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 01:23:55 EDT To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, rchasteen@kc.rr.com Subject: [CR]Old Aluminium Bicycle Handlebars

Almost like moustache bars?

Calvert Guthrie Kansas City

<A HREF="http://ebay.com/<blah> ck here: eBay item 1132044172 (Ends Apr-13-01 21:01:20 PDT) - Old Aluminium Bicycle Handlebar L@@k</A>

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Message: 14 From: "Richard & Shelvie Robinson" <robin25@konnect.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:05:33 +0900 Subject: [CR]Vintage Lightweight Restoration

Hello to all fellow vintage lightweight enthusiasts! I am = relatively new to this list. I spend most of my time in the background = reading and enjoying all the great vintage info and cycling history.

I have a question for the list concerning refinishing vintage = lightweights and what someone should expect after having his frame = "professionally" refinished. First I'll have to give you a little = background.=20

I bought my first vintage lightweight a few years back on ebay. I got a = relatively good deal on a '73 Paramount. Frame was straight, chrome was = good, but the paint was in very bad shape. It needed a total refinish. = After asking many nice folks I met on the Internet I was pointed into = the direction of a well-known custom bike shop that has a long history = with Schwinn Paramounts.=20

To make a long story short after approximately nine months my frame = arrived! It was packaged very well and I could see that great care was = taken. I opened the box and was initially very pleased. The silver paint = with red decals looked great. Then I started to notice detail errors = here and there. Clearcoat over the chrome stays and lugs (although this = may be a good ideal, I don't know?), the rear dropout was not fixed, BB = and rear der. hanger threads were coated in clearcoat (had to be cleaned = of clearcoat), the $50.00 vintage head badge had three very noticeable = chips in the paint, and last but the most visible error was that the = lower seat tube World Champ Stripes were upside-down!=20

After taking several deep breaths I sat down and sent a quick email to = the bike shop. I described the errors and softly expressed my = dissatisfaction. I received a quick response from the owner explaining = why they clearcoat old chrome, O.K. He also stated that they never = noticed the stripes, thanked me for the lesson and said that he would = make sure it didn't happen on future refinishes, but no apologies or = attempts to rectify the problem! I sent him a second email expressing my = dissatisfaction. No answer as of a week now.=20

My intent is not to bash this company. I have always held this company = with the highest regards. My questions to the list are what should = someone expect from a refinish job, one that cost well over $600.00? Am = I wrong in asking for correction/restitution or at least an apology? = Like I said at the beginning of this post I'm relatively new to this = great hobby and any insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated. = I may also have an early 70's Frejus refinished in the near future. Any = recommendations?

I appreciate your time. I know this was a long post and I hope I haven't = broken any rules. If you would like to respond to any of my questions = feel free to send me an email directly or post to this thread. You might = have some insight or experiences that may be beneficial to all members.=20

Regards,

Richard "Big Rob" Robinson, Okinawa, Japan, robin25@konnect.net=20

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Message: 15 From: Catherine Lunsmann <lunsmann@tpg.com.au> Reply-To: "lunsmann@tpg.com.au" <lunsmann@tpg.com.au> To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:45:04 +1000 Organization: Catherine Lunsmann Subject: [CR]Dating a BSA Chainwheel.

Can anyone help me to date a BSA chainwheel ? It is a five pin chainwheel for 1 in pitch, skip link, chain. The chainwheel does not have BSA lettering in its pattern but it does carry the BSA name and symbol. The outer face of the wheel has the number Rd 310844 and the inner face carries French and German patent numbers. The chainwheel is from a fixed wheel bike that has been restored and is currently being reassembled. Dating the chainwheel would give me some idea as to the age of the bike. I suspect that it may be from about 1910 or the 1920s. The other components on the bike include Dunlop Welch 28x1 1/2 rims and a Philco centrepull brake. Most of the other components are Brampton.

regards

Rolf Lunsmann

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Message: 16 From: Catherine Lunsmann <lunsmann@tpg.com.au> Reply-To: "lunsmann@tpg.com.au" <lunsmann@tpg.com.au> To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:51:18 +1000 Organization: Catherine Lunsmann Subject: [CR]What on earth is a Greyhound Saddle?

While we are in the dating mood, perhaps someone may be able to help me with some information about a saddle. The saddle is a "Greyhound 244" model made by The ????? Saddle Co Ltd of Birmingham. Does anyone know which firm this is? The saddle looks very similar in design to my Brooks Professional but unlike the Professional it has three holes in the top similar to a B17.

regards

Rolf Lunsmann

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Message: 17 Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:53:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [CR]Dating a BSA Chainwheel. From: "Hilary Stone" <Hilary.Stone@Tesco.net> To: "lunsmann@tpg.com.au" <lunsmann@tpg.com.au>, "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

If you can send me a photo of it i am certain that it can be dated to withi= n a few years. BSA was incorporated in the chainwheel from 1908 onwards so the chainwheel at least dates from pre that year. But there are several different patterns that predate this and I cannot tell without a drawing or photo. Regards Hilary Stone

Rolf Lunsmann wrote=8A
> Can anyone help me to date a BSA chainwheel ? It is a five pin chainwheel
> for 1 in pitch, skip link, chain. The chainwheel does not have BSA
> lettering in its pattern but it does carry the BSA name and symbol. The
> outer face of the wheel has the number Rd 310844 and the inner face carri= es
> French and German patent numbers. The chainwheel is from a fixed wheel bi= ke
> that has been restored and is currently being reassembled. Dating the
> chainwheel would give me some idea as to the age of the bike. I suspect
> that it may be from about 1910 or the 1920s. The other components on the
> bike include Dunlop Welch 28x1 1/2 rims and a Philco centrepull brake. Mo= st
> of the other components are Brampton.
>

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Message: 18 From: "John Swarbrick" <johnswarbrick@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:33:46 -0000 Subject: [CR]Jack Taylor frames for sale.

Hi,

I was following the thread about Jack Taylor Bikes.

I was also emailed by Mark Lawrence with the list of Jack Taylors for sale.

Iv'e been after a 'JT' for quite a while and I placed an ad on the wanted section of the CR site a while ago I guess thats where Mark got my email address from.

From what I understand Norman Taylor continued building frames following the closure of 'JT' on a sort of one off basis. I think he used to go to the CTC rally in york with a few frames.

I spoke to Norman about 5 months ago after I had had no luck finding an older JT at all (maybe I'm to fussy).

It was a really plesant conversation all about bikes and riding. I asked what type of frames he could produce and the answer was any thing originally produced by JT cycles.

Now the JT model range was quite extensive Curve tubes, Tandems, Tour of Britian Models, etc.

All of which you could have in 531 competition I asked about various frame fittings mafac pegs etc there was no problem.

Norman struck me as a really nice bloke who was really keen on cycles.

I don't know much about Mark lawrence I guess he's selling these bikes on behalf of Norman taylor.

Whatever the situation. You will get a really good frame.

Regards,

John

_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Message: 19 From: "Stewart Barrie" <sbarrie@bellefield.worldonline.co.uk> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:00:23 +0100 Subject: [CR]WTB: Mafac Cantilevers

I would like to buy 2 pairs of Mafac Driver or Criterium cantlilever = brakes. Anybody willing to part with these.

Cheers

Stewart

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Message: 20 From: "John Swarbrick" <johnswarbrick@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:11:10 -0000 Subject: [CR]Non Commercial.

Hi,

I have been visiting the CR main site for ages now And Always find it really infomative and enjoyable place.

I now notice that it has changed address and has some banners sponsoring the site.

The text is included below from the main site.

How does the Non Commercial statement below (from the old site) Now stand when there are banners Sponoring the site?

"The images and text found in the Classic Rendezvous Web Site have been submitted by many contributors and are presented in a non- commercial setting to celebrate and promote the sources and creators"

If you had contributed material to the site in it's original form. Would you now contribute material to it now that its sponsored?

I'm not trying to prevoke an arguement with anybody. I just find it an interesting question.

I also fully understand the reasons why the site is now sponsored.

Cheers,

John _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Message: 21 From: "Takao Noda" <tanoda@d1.dion.ne.jp> To: "Classic Bike List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Benotto ID help Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:32:56 +0900

I have found an advertisement of Benotto 3000 " Aguila del Tachira" ,Ariostea-Benotto team model on " La Bicicletta" 1984. It seems the last model in Champagne color and with traditional decals ,for in 1985 bikes of the Ariostea -Once-Benotto team were in Blue and white colors.
    The ad. said that it was silver brazed ( no percentage !). Unfortunately it did not say where it was built , although on the decal is " Fabbrica Biciclette Torino" and the address of the company is Padova. The decal of Columbus( SL) was on the right side of top tube near the head lug. The brake cable guides and shift lever bosses are brazed on. Derailleur cables go under the BB. The front derailleur boss is not brazed on. Investment cast lugs and crown are elaborated. Chain stays are specially formed to have more rigidity.
    If your frame is of this model, the ad. can give you the information of other components.
    The only thing I know with certainty is that the bikes of VIVI - Benotto team 1983 were made by Umberto Marnati , Milan.
                           Takao Noda
                  Hachioji, Tokyo, Japan


----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Jones-Bamman
To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: [CR]Benotto ID help



> My weekend foray to flea markets yielded a Benotto frame with a few parts
> and I'm hoping that someone out there might be able to help with a bit of
> info on the company and possible date/provenance. The first issue is
> whether the Benottos produced in Mexico are clearly stamped/marked as such.
> I searched the CR archives and couldn't find any leads on this. This frame
> has a seattube decal stating "Fabrica Biciclette Torino" leading me to think
> it's conceivably Italian, but I defer to the experts here on the list.
> There is also a small decal above declaring "Del Mundo 1977/San Cristobal".
> The Benotto name (white letters on a dark blue field) is found on the
> seattube, downtube, headtube and back of the seattube.
>
> The fork is chrome with "Benotto" enscribed on the crown with traces of dark
> blue paint remaining; the paint is in reasonably good shape and is a dull
> gold with a slight greenish tint (underline "slight"). Bottom bracket has a
> clear "B" cutout and another which is more stylized (kind of like deco
> version of a "B"). There are two separate numbers stamped on the bottom
> bracket: "61" on the drive side and "1358" placed opposite. The lugs are
> fairly short pointed; those on the headtube have been additionally
> modified, forming a pronounced waist before reaching a point. Finally, the
> chainstays transition from oval to a shape approximating a diamond (or
> square on its edge) before tapering to the dropouts; the dropouts are Campy,
> fork and rear. The frame came with a newish Campy headset (I don't know the
> post SR models so can't identify), a very cool black Gipiemme aero-looking
> seatpost, and Ofmega cranks; no idea if any of the latter are original.
>
> Curiously enough, there is no sign of a decal/sticker referring to the
> tubing used, leading me to wonder just what this thing is. If there was
> one, given the uniform shade of the paint, it must have been removed early
> in the frame's career, unless this particular metallic paint doesn't fade
> much.
>
> Anyway, being a complete neophyte with this company's products I was hoping
> you all might be able to help me at least get a better sense of the relative
> quality of the frame--maybe even a rough guess as to age? It's going to fit
> me fine, so I'd like to build it up with components that are approximately
> period-correct. On the other hand, I paid virtually nothing for it, so I'm
> prepared to hear the worst.
>
> Sorry for the length of this post, but figured that these were reasonably
> relevant details. Thanks.
>
> Richard Jones-Bamman
> Storrs, CT
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>

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Message: 22 Date: 9 Apr 2001 06:47:54 -0700 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org From: brucerobbins@worldmailer.com Subject: [CR]Re: American frame builders rule?

It's quite funny that some people think petrol is not a reliable indicator of the cost of living. Not only is it a major cost to be borne by every motorist, it also contributes, through high transportation costs, to just about every product and service on offer. If that's not contributing to the cost of living, I'm a banana.

I'd hoped that with petrol prices hitting record levels in the UK, cycling would have been given a considerable boost. I don't think there's any sign yet of people rushing out to buy new bikes but the cycle racks at my work have definitely started filling up, albeit mostly with mountain bikes.

I'm hoping to start commuting on one of my classics to see if I can get a bit of interest going in old road bikes. Those knobbly-tyred types don't know what they're missing. The positive side of this general lack of interest is that I can still pick up nice machines at very low prices.

Next week, I'll be adding a 1950s BSA, with original and quite reasonable paintwork and 531 throughout, to my stable for the very modest sum of £30-or about eight gallons of petrol!

Cheers, Bruce.

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End of Classicrendezvous Digest