Re: [CR]Bike technology peaked in the 1984?

(Example: Framebuilders:Norman Taylor)

Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:35:15 -0700
Subject: Re: [CR]Bike technology peaked in the 1984?
From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <3AE1D101.46CA6B2D@penn.com>


As near as I can measure the clusters on the bikes, a 10-speed rear wheel has no more dish than an 8-speed rear wheel.

--

Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at earthlink dot net aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash


> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:27:14 -0400
> To: Rick Chasteen <rchasteen@kc.rr.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: Fw: [CR]Bike technology peaked in the 1984?
>
> I think everyone lies a little on rim weight, so it doesn't surprise me that
> all
> the rims, including the Arc-en-Ciel, which was advertised at 330gm but weighs
> out at 340, are higer than advertised. Of course, a kitchen food scale is not
> exactly a precision scientific instrument, so the absolute weights could be a
> little inaccurate, but the relative weights of rims weighed on the same scale
> should be pretty close. There were some old rims above 500gm, in fact I just
> weighed a Weinmann concave at 550gm, but I don't think the concave was ever
> intended for racing. I'm frankly surprised that the Rigida didn't have a
> bigger
> weight advantage over the Open Pro. I would have guessed the Rigida was a
> shade under 400gm, but that's why, as someone said earlier in the thread,
> facts
> are better than opinion. I don't have a non-ceramic Open Pro, but I weighed
> the
> Open Pro's predecessor, the Open 4 CD, which comes in at 460gm, 10 gm less
> than
> the Open Pro Ceramic.
>
> I will give the newer rims one thing - they build a very strong front wheel,
> where you don't have the dish of a 10 speed cluster. A year or two ago, I
> rode
> a metric century on an unfamiliar course. I came around a downhill blind
> corner
> and hit a big pothole dead center. The impact jarred the handlebars loose in
> the stem, and they rotated downward about 45 deg. After managing to stop the
> bike with suddenly repositioned brake levers, I found that the Open 4 CD front
> wheel was not even knocked out of true. I took out the Allen wrench,
> retightened the bars, and rode on. Don't try that with a Fiamme Ergal.
>
> BTW, if anyone is wondering how to weigh a rim on a kitchen food scale, set
> the
> scale at the corner of a rectangular kitchen table, diagonal to the angle of
> the
> corner. You can hang the rim over the scale without it touching the table.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> Rick Chasteen wrote:
>
>> Those weights are a surprise to me! I thought the older rims all weighed in
>> at 500 grams or so since my MA40/MA3/E2's hit that number. That's less than
>> 1 ounce from what you got Jerry, which is scale error or production
>> variance. I'm not surprised about the weight of the Rigida, however, since
>> I had some durability problems with them.
>>
>> For what its worth, the non ceramic Open Pro is supposed to weigh 425 grams.
>> When I get back in town Wednesday, I'll weigh one of mine and post the
>> results to the List.
>>
>> By the way, Listmember Jeremy works at a shop which has a large number of
>> Rigida 1320's in 27" size for a very attractive price.
>>
>> Rick Chasteen, Kansas City
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
>> To: Rick Chasteen <rchasteen@kc.rr.com>
>> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 9:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [CR]Bike technology peaked in the 1984?
>>
>>> Rick Chasteen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike, et al:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you compare a Super Champion, Rigida, or MA-40 clincher from
>> the
>>>> '70's/'80's, you will find current clinchers are much lighter and
>>>> stronger.>>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't think this was the case, so I pulled some rims out of the attic
>> and
>>> weighed on a kitchen food scale. A modern Mavic Open Pro Ceramic weighs
>> 470gm.
>>> A Mavic MA2 is just slightly heavier at 485 gm. The recently discontinued
>>> Ambrosio Gentlemen, which I think is essentailly the old Super Champion
>>> Gentleman, is 482gm. A Rigida 1320, however, is noticeably lighter at
>> 440gm.
>>> Conclusion, modern clinchers, at least the widely used Open Pro, are about
>> the
>>> same weight as the average old clinchers and heavier than the Rigida,
>> which is
>>> the clincher rim I most commonly see on 70's era bikes set up for racing.
>> Note
>>> that the Rigida I weighed was a 27", so I'd think a 700C Rigida 1320 would
>> be a
>>> little lighter, at least 10gm probably, so for the same size the Rigida
>> would be
>>> about 40gm lighter than the Open Pro. Not a huge difference, but
>> noticeable.
>>> What is a huge difference is that between any modern rim and even a medium
>> weigh
>>> old tubular rim. A Super Champion Arc-en-Ciel, which was not considered a
>> very
>>> light rim in the 70's, weighs 340gm on the same scale, 130gm less than the
>> Open
>>> Pro.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jerry Moos