Re: [CR] Flying Scot-- More, please

(Example: Events)

From: "Dennis Ryan" <loubobky@hotmail.com>
To: brucerobbins@worldmailer.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR] Flying Scot-- More, please
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:08:38 -0400


Bruce, I know I speak for many other members, new and old (how old is this list, anyway? ;-) when i say I'd really like to listen over your shoulders sometimes when you and Bob talk Flying Scots or whatever! I know a lot of listmembers don't contribute because they are in awe of the experience and experiences of some of the Senior Members, and are content to just to listen and learn because you can pick up so much more than you could with a lifetime of bumming around your Local BS. I don't mind deleting through threads that don't interest and concern me, and I think the spirited discussions are fun and shouldn't be taken too seriously. The topic inspires passionate interest because it's "our thing" -- they probably get like this on alt.cabbagepatch (whatever) or the Meissen figurine list, too. Hey, it's a party, not a job! Just my two cents Dennis Ryan Luhuvul, KY

----Original Message Follows---- From: brucerobbins@worldmailer.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Art Smith Date: 8 Jul 2001 16:50:32 -0700

Thanks for breaking cover, Art, and submitting such an intelligent post. You hit the nail on the head over and over again.

As a Scot living in Scotland, the Confente thing is totally alien to me, too, and, I suspect, to many living in Australia, Japan, Europe and other parts of the globe. I've no doubt the bikes are great and the history may be of interest to some people.

However, other marques/history hold a similar interest for others. The Flying Scot marque has a tremendous history behind it and the factory where the bikes were made was loaded with intrigue. If Bob Reid and I and a few others were to fill the CR list with posts about Rattray's Glasgow workshop, 99% of list members would rightly be fed up and switch off. Similarly, 99% of list members who have never seen and have little interest in a Mario Confente-built Masi get fed up reading about that particular obsession.

Aware that this is, or is supposed to be a global list, Bob and I mainly discuss the Flying Scot stuff off-list. It would be nice if the Masi mafia were able to offer the rest of us the same courtesy. Even better, why doesn't someone start up a Mario Confente/Masi website where all the information about the bikes can be made available to anyone who is interested?

I also agree with Art that too much is made of Campagnolo. It seems that amongst certain list members, a bike isn't worth having unless it has "full SR" or similar. These people don't have collections of bikes: they just have collections of frames because the components are all the same. Once you've checked out the frame, there is no point in looking any further.

However, don't give up on the list, Art. For all the sandal-wearing members of the personality cult, there are many others who contribute a tremendous amount and who don't do so just to appear more knowledgeable than anyone else.

Bruce

Art Smith wrote:

> In response to Brian's observation that a small group of the 400 members > contribute to most of the commentary on this site and his call for what > others think, here goes. I introduced myself and added a few posts in the > months that I've been lurking around here. I came on in the middle of one of > the emotional slams about some dead guy and commented that perhaps I'm in > the wrong spot, but was assured by several private e-mails that the > substance of this site is about bikes, and to hang with it. I've spent a > number of years on oldroads and have found that environment to be an honest, > supportive forum. Realizing that the discussions here were a bit different > in topic and tone, I read everything you've written in order to get a > handle on what this site is about. > I think there are some really straightforward people here. I think > their knowledge and opinions and advice are worth seeking out. I think > others ought to ride more and talk less. I don't get the Masi/Confente thing > and > frankly think it's way overplayed. Sorry if that "hurts anyone's feelings." > I don't get the hurt feelings thing. I think a free exchange of ideas ought > to preclude hurt feelings. I think that a set of rules ought toapply to > everyone, not just big names in the hobby with reps. Suppose I have a > legitimate, fact-based beef with a celebrity. Can I air it here as > righteously as I could against a no name e-bay dealer? I'm not sure. > I don't want to get off on a rant here, but a number of us have left because > of the overwhelming sense of attitude that permeates a strand of this site. > It is by no means the whole site, but it is similar to the attitude many > high tech, weekend roadies, dressed like Lance, have. It's the "I have the > big guns, f... you, you can't hang with us" attitude regardless of how well > you ride but rather based on their idea of what Bicycling Magazine just > designated as the hottest $4000 road machine. It's ironical that attitude > shows up here. It appears at times that the PC thing is to adore Confente, > Masis and Campagnolo and heaven help you if you don't. Brian showed an > example of a new frame he was working on. I had a criticism of the style of > the frame from an artistic point of view. I wanted to share my observations > in an art critigue sense. However, I knew that if I did, my criticism of the > frame would be seen as a personal attack on Brian (which it would not have > been) and > that a round of fans would rush to his defense. The cult of personality is > at times rampant here, for both the living and the dead. > While I am not a framebuilder nor do I make my living in the world of > bicylcles, vintage or not, as a collector and lover of bikes I have an > interest in many of the topics discussed here. One can't legislate honesty > or open mindedness or compassion on this site any more than one can trust > that a member won't bid against another member on an auction. This site > isn't everything I want, but it has its moments. This is just the way I see > it. I don't know, I could be wrong. > > Art Smith >

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