Re:[CR] Real Masi vs the American Forgeries vs deep doo doo

(Example: Racing:Jean Robic)

From: <Bikerdaver@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:57:50 EDT
Subject: Re:[CR] Real Masi vs the American Forgeries vs deep doo doo
To: richardsachs@juno.com, OROBOYZ@aol.com, kdenny@uism.bu.edu
Cc: rena.cutrufelli@comcast.net, chuckschmidt@earthlink.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


Richard and Dale, Thank you for articulating the issue better than I did, let alone other's replies. Kudos to both of you. Cheers, Dave Anderson Cut Bank MT

here we go again..... snip: < And by all reports, Faliero stopped actually building frames way back in the late 1960s... A bike made by his number one disciple (Mario Confente) >

i'm still not believing this one. even after all these years. mario was probabaly not the first choice. if i recall correctly, he wasn't even the first italian to come with mr.masi to america. he's just the first one who was willing to stay. he was young. it was california. end of story. e-RICHIE

On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:40:38 EDT OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:
> I would submit a slightly different way of looking at all this.
> "Real" vs. "fake" is really not very productive...
> In reality it is about who made it with their own hands and whose name is on
> the bike. The closer we get to having those two elements being the same,
> i.e., the frame was actually built by the person whose name is on the decal,
> the more positive we feel about the bike.
>
> Faliero Masi was "The Man" who built for the stars and his touch has the
> priority in valuation. The more removed he became in the process, the less
> value aficionados would logically have for the product. Is is a matter of
> degree, not black or white. And by all reports, Faliero stopped actually
> building frames way back in the late 1960s... A bike made by his number one
> disciple (Mario Confente) or his son (Milano Masi!) still has an aura but it
> is not quite the same. A bike made by a workshop contracted out with no input
> from Faliero at all or in Taiwan/China is also hard to embrace as being very
> much related to the Maestro's original vision...
>
> If we choose to and if that's where our values lie, we also can differentiate
> between the actual craft and skill and style brought to particular makes. I
> do agree with Mike Kone's original assessment that many California
> Masis have better workmanship and paint than the Italian versions from the same
> period.. (models Criterium vs Prestige.) But does that make them more "real"? It
> actually is irrelevant unless that part of Faliero's craft/art is what you
> are attracted to in the first place.
>
> A Jack Denny made Hetchins is a lot more interesting to me than a Bob
> Jackson made Hetchins.... than a new David Miller made Hetchins, but that
> doesn't mean they are not cool bikes.
> So, the further away a make comes from it's original state, that which its
> fame is initially derived, the less value it has as a historic link. But
> that doesn't mean it cannot have value unto itself.
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina

========================================================= Subj: Masi Date: 4/8/02 4:53:29 AM Pacific Standard Time From: <A HREF="mailto:kdenny@uism.bu.edu">kdenny@uism.bu.edu</A> To: <A HREF="mailto:bikerdaver@aol.com">bikerdaver@aol.com</A> Sent from the Internet (Details)

Let's see. You wrote...

<< The American made ones, were Duping Forgeries. >> So then, when Mario Confente built a Masi in the Velodrome shop in Italy it was a "real Masi", but when he built one in California it was a fake? What about the ones from California which might have forks actually worked by Faliero's own hands? Could you help me figure out the other Masi's? I have a Masi Team 3V built in Italy. Problem is, it was built under contract by the Mondonico shop! Its pedigree is further complicated by its having been sold by Torelli under Faliero's US licensing agreement. Please, please, is it real or is it fake? Its my favorite "go fast" bike and it will be heartbroken to find out its not real. (I suspect everyone will say "its not a real Masi", but its still a fine machine and a cut above some other Masi badged stuff from either side of the pond. Thanks, Carlo Carr New Orleans
>>I think the rhetorical use of the word "forgery" is a bit misleading here. California Masi's weren't "forgeroes" but rather legally produced cycles, licensed under the name "Masi". Are they the "real deal"? Not from a purists sense of the word. Faliero was very near retirement in 1973 and what a perfect way to cash in his chips - sell the operation to a group of Californians, under the guise of his name, even bringing in one of his builders from Italy who was anxious to move to SoCal to set up his life.

You shpould also understand that Mario Confente was not Faliero's favorite disciple/builder, but rather a person who built outsourced framesets in his own shop, which by the way, was not anywhere near the Milan Masi shop, located under the Vigorelli. There are lots of "Masi's" out there. But only Masi's built in Vigorelli can technically qualify as teh real deal. All others are either "outsourced", "California Masi's", "Licensed Masi's" or "Alberto Masi's".

It's sort of like all the Andy Warhol, Picasso, Dali, (fill in the blank) prints out there. None are original, unless they are signed.
Take care,
ken denny