[CR]Who made that? (long)

(Example: Production Builders)

Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:53:29 -0700
Resent-Message-Id: <A47E3520-E7C5-11D6-A5C2-00039356BD92@mac.com>
Resent-To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "Brandon Ives" <monkeylad@mac.com>
To: The Maaslands <TheMaaslands@comcast.net>
Resent-From: Brandon Ives <monkeylad@mac.com>
Subject: [CR]Who made that? (long)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:58:30 -0700

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 05:54 PM, The Maaslands wrote:
> Richard is very much correct. Almost all teh builders that I know treat
> their production as simply their livelihood, not an art.

When I started in the industry I was surprised at how much stuff was farmed out. Were we not just this morning discussing how FB made Campagnolo hubs? I think most of the non-industry list members would be shocked at how much stuff is made by other companies than they believe. I can't count the times I've looked at some need part and heard, "Oh yea that's made by Ofmega" Replace Ofmega with Sunshine or random foreign and domestic machine shop and you've got the idea. I'm sure Chuck can, but how many people can list all the companies Campy contracted parts from?

With frames the water gets even murkier. There are many reasons things are farmed out for other folks to build. One is demand; not only is the bike industry seasonal but it's fickle. This means that demand for your bikes can fluctuate violently. The options for the manufacturer is to lose sales or farm out work. Ask yourself what you would do? I remember talking to a friend of mine who's been building almost as long as I've been alive and talking about the early mountain bike boom of the early 80s. I was talking about a company who's bikes I liked and was very popular at the time. He spoke up and said, " You know I built a ton of those bikes right?" Er. . . . no. . . . "Oh yea when sales went up all the lower end frames went to Japan and the high end bikes were built by about 6-7 guys around the US." Not too long after that I was talking to another builder friend who was talking about how their new "custom" frames were using pre-made chainstay/seatstay assemblies made in England. Both of these were done because of demand for the product.

The second main reason is price. Anyone on the list has been a business owner has been faced with this debate. If you read a young mans ordeal on the Framebuilders list you can see the downside of this debate. Before around 1985 it was cheaper to build in Japan then in the US or Western Europe. The main issue was labor costs. In the US labor is very expensive. Some builders will buy sub-assemblies from Asia or Europe and change to make their own. Some will just design a bike, have it build somewhere else and put another name and their stamp of approval on it. The idea is to get people involved in your budget frames and build some name recognition.

Add all this to the times where companies were moving factories, had employees on strike, or had other problems they couldn't control and you have a lot of farmed out frames. There is no shame in building or buying contract work. The only thing you can hope for is that the company respects the customer more than margins. The view of the general cycling public is such that we're lucky that there are more than a few people doing their own work with their own name on it the product. Personally I look at each item and judge it on the merits it holds before me. I've owned bikes with major players names on them that I thought were questionable, and bikes by mass producers that I said "WOW" too. Every time I think can write something off I realize the there's more to it. Just like in life beauty is more than skin
deep.
enjoy,
Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
SB, CA