[CR]Kicking a dead horse?

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing:Falck)

From: "Dennis Young" <mail@woodworkingboy.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <20021106064700.22273.92275.Mailman@phred.org>
Subject: [CR]Kicking a dead horse?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:05:36 -0800

on 11/5/02 22:47, classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org at classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org wrote:
>
> Well............ it seems these two messages are back to the same point again!
>
> So it turns out is not the proliferation of eBay discussions on the CR that
> is objectionable to some of you, but instead the alerting of other bidders
> to the auction that you want to win or perhaps do not want comments on. This
> is a very much less defendable position, as it is based upon your own self
> interest over the communal dialogue about those items.. Yes, even a bit
> selfish. And the seller deserves the highest price that the market will
> provide. I am not crazy about the high prices that some items have sold for
> but I staunchly believe in a free marketplace!
>
> If that philosophy of not wanting outing on the CR list was taken by a
> seller, one could almost assume that they did not want an informed buyer but
> would rather that the item not be defined so closely so as to possibly reveal
> negatives about it...
>
> I might wish for a stealth mode if I really wanted to buy a particular item
> at auction, but I wouldn't have the nerve to request and expect that everyone
> on the CR list shut up about that auction until I had won... Who was it that
> said, "This does not smack of nobility but of blatant self interest!"
> Shakespeare? Groucho Marx?
>

I wish that the terms, "self interest", or the more disconcerting, "selfishness", were not tossed around so loosely by individuals who perhaps are in a considerably more advantageous position to see it with that perspective. The people with "collections", I'm wondering what percentage of the items they`ve obtained in the last few years were gleaned at locations other than ebay. Is it fair to say the greater amount? Generally speaking, a few of us don`t have the luxury of finding classic parts at places other than internet auctions without going to considerable effort and expense, not least of which is a ten hour plane trip. Throw in the rent a car, the uncomfortable hotel bed, and then the dreaded flight back compounded by the tendency to have overindulged in sorely missed Mexican food, and I think that you can get the picture. For us, ebay is the only game in town. Perhaps I need to be further enlightened, but I`m not seeing much respect, or in the least, compassion, for our situation from what I`m reading. Also, the vast majority of classic parts are being offered by sellers within the United States. The number of items that will not be shipped overseas further reduces our ability to obtain what most of you have a clear shot at.

Still don`t buy it? I take the liberty of another approach:

My understanding of one of the main benefits of a free market is a lowering of prices due to competition among sellers as dictated by a broad consumer base. Obviously, this argument is not applicable within the market we comprise, given the relative unavailability of the products we seek. In the case of classic parts at ebay, the free market in terms of unrestricted buyers unarguably has the opposite effect of a normal free market by predictably raising prices. I suggest that some restraints on the classic bike market are necessary to prevent 'run away' monopolists, who by the mere act of selling, seek to exploit a market that heretofore has been only accentuated by the open CR information exchange, in this case as applied to ebay. I believe that it is a very shortsighted vision that can not foresee the risks of such a continued acceptance of this approach. Someday, we could awaken to find that the base prices that sellers start their auctions with may already be beyond most of our means, and it will be only the 'fat cats' that stand a chance at obtaining the cherished items we value so much. It has often been demonstrated that unrestricted free markets lead to uninspireing results. Unregulated capitalism may be a persuasive dogma, but the unsavory results of this can be seen in history. The only ammunition we have in fighting run away costs in our little bike world, is by offering a reduced or somewhat unpredictable market. It may be a 'stretch', but I wish to suggest that by reasonably keeping what we see at ebay to ourselves as individuals, we "naturally" help accomplish this in some small way. In my opinion, without this we are only hurting ourselves in the long run, and the cost of classic bike parts will presumably esculate.

Picture this; you`re standing at a seller`s table at a swap meet and the guy pulls out a unused 50`s Cinelli with a crest decal on the fork from under a blanket, and in just your size. Just about the time your eyeballs spring back into their sockets, the dude standing next to you shouts out to the whole seven hundred in the place, "Hey everybody, ya gotta check this out!" If that sort of thing makes you feel good, I definitely want to be there to experience some of that cool gas that is being pumped into the room. I greatly appreciate the information that CR members have graciously extended to me in response to my enquiries. I will make every endeaver to be able to return the courtesy. When it comes to auctions though, PLEASE PLEASE 'zip it'. Thanks so much.

Dennis Young Hotaka, it`s Asahi 'dry' time, Japan