Now I know all you guys are just keeping the Masi in the thread title to drive up the Masi name when you search the archives! Trying to bring it up to surpass the Raleigh and Ebay.
Roy G Biv (my alter ego) Falls Creek, Pa
On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:32:02 -0700 John Price <jprice@2-10.com> wrote:
> "...Just counted 13 vintage Masis in my shop in
> various stages of repair and
> resortation. I have 3 more. How many people can
> refer to that many
> vintage classics within a minute or so? That's
> to say nothing of the
> several of each Herses, Hetchins, and Cinellis,
> Pogliaghis, etc..."
>
> Man, I'd LOVE to tour your shop some time ! I
> think a CR field trip is due.
>
> John Price
> Denver, CO
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Baylis [mailto:rocklube@adnc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:07 AM
> To: Richard M Sachs
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Re: Masi talk
>
>
> Richard,
>
> Well that settles it. We're going to have to
> convince Dale to make
> efforts to invite Alberto to Le Cirque 2003. If
> we begin now I'm
> reasonably certain we could arrange such a
> thing. I personally will do
> anything it takes that I am capable of to make
> that happen, including
> pitch in CASH to cover his expences. I recently
> spoke to Dales' other
> perspective "guest of honor" and he is willing
> to attend but is
> reluctant to be the "entertainment". The
> situation is ripe for this
> melding of the continents. We have benifited
> trememdously from the UK
> members (good to see Bruce Robbins back again),
> Japanese members, and
> members from other continents, (OZ, and
> Europe). We have Matteo Brandi
> who is a fantastic person as well as resource,
> from Italy to enrich our
> experience. This would put icing on the DONUT
> in a huge way. How about
> it Dale??
>
> Back to the issue. I understand your
> perspective and experiences and in
> 99% of the cases you would be correct. I'm
> willing to stick my neck out
> on this one. The good part is, the facts about
> this frame are not
> anywhere near impossible to come up with. I
> suspect a good researcher
> could unearth photos of the team and maybe even
> the bike if they know
> who to ask and where to look. I'll bet there
> are a few such person's on
> this list or at least easily contacted.
>
> An extensive interview with Alberto will most
> likely reveal exactly how
> and why he knows this bike was built by the old
> man. In so many cases of
> such questions these easy resources are not
> available for use in
> verifying such an important question. Let's
> just do it and then we can
> be sure. We will most certainly learn a
> trememdous amout no matter what
> happens.
>
> Only a few years ago I felt it was next to
> impossible to dig up
> imformation on the early years of Masi. Now I
> know that is is not only
> possible, it's quite easy on account of the
> collective knowledge and
> talents of this group. Let's watch it in action
> as we sort this one out.
> I'm a Masi watcher too, Richie. I've seen it
> from a different
> perspective than you have. I realize this one
> is a long shot and I hope
> the information I've recieved thus far is
> accurate. If it is then I feel
> reasonably certain we have an example of a
> Faliero built bike. We should
> be able to trace the linage of this bike back
> to it's origin. Between us
> there is an incredable amount of information
> and opinions. I'm seriously
> anxious to know more now, directly from
> Alberto. I know there must also
> be a considerable number of Masi historians in
> Italy. I'm sure we can
> come up with a lot of interesting information
> about this boaring
> subject. Let's do it now before the resources
> disappear.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> Just counted 13 vintage Masis in my shop in
> various stages of repair and
> resortation. I have 3 more. How many people can
> refer to that many
> vintage classics within a minute or so? That's
> to say nothing of the
> several of each Herses, Hetchins, and Cinellis,
> Pogliaghis, etc. etc.
> You tend to get a feeling for Masis at this
> rate.
> >
> > B2
> > i hate saying 'stuff like this', but my
> interpretation on the
> > letter is based on my experience in the
> industry, my long
> > time spent as a masi-watcher, five trips to
> italy which
> > encompassed visits to 'all' the major frame
> shops (which
> > include three visits to the vigorelli), and
> my intuition about
> > manufacturing methods in general; what we
> call 'building'
> > and what they call 'building' are, more often
> than not, two
> > different animals. i guess i'll wait to see
> what 'he built the
> > frame' really means.
> > e-RICHIE
> > Richard Sachs Cycles
> > No.9, North Main Street
> > Chester, CT 06412 USA
> > http://www.richardsachs.com
> > Tel. 860.526.2059
> >
> > On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:47:38 -0800 Brian
> Baylis
> > writes:
> > > Richard,
> > >
> > > I sounds to me that you still feel that the
> intent of the letter is
> > > your
> > > interpetation as opposed to that which the
> owner claims. I'd like
> > > to
> > > know what are the foundations of this
> belief? I get the impression
> > > that
> > > you are not convinced that the seller and
> buyer, both of whom were
> > > in
> > > Italy at the time, were not clear on what
> the question was.
> > >
> > > For starters, the seller had heard Alberto
> comment on the fact that
> > > his
> > > father built that bike for a team in
> Milano. I don't feel this
> > > statement
> > > can be misunderstood to mean that "the Masi
> company" built that
> > > bike.
> > > It's quite obvious it's a Masi to anyone
> who has any respectable
> > > amount
> > > of knowledge about Masis. Exactly what
> would be the point of getting
> > > a
> > > letter from Alberto regarding the fact that
> it is a Masi? Nothing
> > > could
> > > be more obvious. The significant thing
> about the frame is it is one
> > > Faliero actually built himself. Alberto
> remembers it specifically.
> > > He
> > > wrote a letter stating that fact upon the
> request of the buyer,
> > > because
> > > the buyer was smart enough to get Albertos'
> written word confirming
> > > the
> > > statment he had made about the origin of
> that frame. It is not my
> > > right
> > > nor anyone elses to consider Alberto or the
> buyer "mistaken" about
> > > the
> > > intent of the letter. The buyer was most
> fortunate to be in a
> > > posotion
> > > to accomplish this and very wise to do so;
> let's not diminish the
> > > effort
> > > it took to do the best possible thing in
> getting verification on
> > > this
> > > frame.
> > >
> > > Brian Baylis
> > > La Mesa, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > snipped:
> > > > Brian Baylis writes:
> > > > Speaking of Masis. I meant to comment on
> the "letter of
> > > > authenticity" and the 1954 Masi Speciale
> track bike. I have
> > > > to admit, I was a bit surprised by some
> of the responces
> > > > from listmembers to Kurt Goodrich. To
> diminish the intent
> > > > or the authenticity of the letter was
> clearly a bit premature
> > > > considering no one asked about the
> circumstances by which
> > > > it was obtained.>>>
> > > >
> > > > bb-no one doubted curt's integrity or
> ability to judge an
> > > > old masi. some listmembers, myself among
> them, questioned
> > > > the literal translation of the 'letter'.
> my comment about it was
> > > > that i could agree with it in spirit, but
> i think it meant that
> > > the
> > > > frame was not so much made by f. masi as
> it meant 'made by
> > > > the eponymous firm'. over there you hear
> alot of 'we do this',
> > > > or 'ours are made this way', type of
> talk. even if the frame is
> > > > 50+ years old, how can 'we' discern what
> it means when the
> > > > letter says 'he' made the frame. did he
> miter the tubes? braze
> > > it?
> > > > file the lugs and run the taps through? i
> think it was always a
> > > > collaborative effort rather than a
> one-man sequence. i do not
> > > > question a. masi's intent in penning the
> letter. i just interpret
> > > > it to mean something other than 'f. masi
> built
> > > > this here frame (by himself)'.
> > > > e-RICHIE
> > > > Richard Sachs Cycles
> > > > No.9, North Main Street
> > > > Chester, CT 06412 USA
> > > > http://www.richardsachs.com
> > > > Tel. 860.526.2059