At the risk of jumping into the middle of a controversy here, I am grateful to Mark for the courage to join and explain his side to a group rather overwhelmingly inclined to side with David Miller. I've heard good things recently about Miller's work, and I'm sure he's a fine fellow, but quite frankly, say about 3 years ago, I'd heard of Omega, but never of Miller. To me the "genuineness" of a marque has to do with continuity, and any semblance of that was destroyed when Bob Jackson went into bankruptcy and was sold to strangers. So both Omega and Miller are seemingly sincere admirers of Hetchins tradition trying to revive the marque, but neither has a real link to the original company. So why accept one as more valid than the other? To me it is a simple matter. Either Miller owned the trademark or he did not. If he did not, Omega had every right to register it. I note that Mark has made no mention of trying to prevent Miller using the name. Perhaps Miller should return the favor, and allow buyers to decide which "revival" they consider more authentic.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX Recently ordered a new Bates to be build by Ron Cooper
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Patrick [mailto:Patrick@aardvark-pro.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:00 PM
> To: 'Mark Reilly'
> Subject: RE: [CR]hetchins
>
>
> Mark,
>
> Thanks for taking to time to address the CR list at large. I do have a
few
> questions to ask, but I may be at a bit of a disadvantage here, as I don't
> know the details of U.K. laws as they relate to business names,
trademarks,
> registrations etc. As such, some of my thoughts may be a bit off base,
but
> please indulge me.
>
> I feel that a lot of the vintage lightweight crowd, both in the U.K and
the
> U.S., were aware that Hetchins were being made by Bob Jackson Cycles in
> Leeds during the 1980s and into the early 1990s. As I remember the press
> reports, the party that had taken over both Bob Jackson and Hetchins
> basically ran the operation into the ground by about 1993 or so, which
> resulted in the banks stepping in, foreclosure and the assets of BJ and
> Hetchins put up for sale. It was at this time that Donald Thomas stepped
in
> the take over the Bob Jackson marque, bringing Bob Jackson himself out of
> retirement to lend a hand. Also at this time, didn't the Hetchins name
> legally end up in the hands of Jake Riviera? It is also my understanding
> that David Miller was then assigned management of the Hetchins marque,
where
> it remains to date. This said, there was a clear paper trail left by the
> involvement of the banks and the courts in the foreclosure and sale of the
> Bob Jackson and Hetchins name. You surely knew of these events, as a
frame
> builder based in the U.K. Did you ever make any effort to investigate the
> disposition of this sale? Did you contact Donald Thomas to ask for further
> information regarding the status of the Hetchins marquee? This seems to
be
> common sense, since Jackson was the last "high profile" builder of the
> Hetchins frames.
>
> Moving on, your story of discovering that there wasn't a Hetchins website
> rings a bit hollow with me. A business isn't required to have a website,
> which you surely know. Your efforts at registering or purchasing rights
to
> Hetchins Cycles Ltd seems to be purely a grab of a dubious nature. So
what
> if David Miller works out of the home? So what if he doesn't have email?
> Does that mean he isn't worthy of carrying on the Hetchins name? And you
> seem to be making an effort to separate your Hetchins efforts from your
> Omega shop, aren't you? You have two separate websites, with no link
> between the two, even though they are both operating from the same
address.
> You don't even acknowledge any link to Omega in the verbiage on your
> Hetchins site. True? And why is that? OK, so perhaps Jake Riviera didn't
> properly register the Hetchins name with the U.K. government, which is
what
> you're indicating. So in your eyes, that put the Hetchins name up for
> grabs? In your eyes, hasn't here been a traceable, unbroken paper trail
of
> the Hetchins marque name into Jake Riviera's hands, with management
assigned
> to David Miller? If not, why not? And it really doesn't matter who
builds
> the frames for David Miller, if he indeed has been assigned legal
management
> duties by Jake Riviera. I mean, David Miller could realistically have
> Hetchins frames made by anyone he chooses to and he'd be within his legal
> rights, wouldn't he? And what about Reynolds? They only sell the 531
curly
> stays to David Miller, don't they? Doesn't this lend some credence to
David
> Miller being the legal tender of Hetchins? Omega has been forced to bend
> stays themselves, if I am correct, and this is quite visible on the
examples
> of the Hetchins frames you've built.
>
> I know this is long winded, and I appreciate your patience here.
Seriously,
> I just seem to have some serious ethical and moral qualms about what you
did
> in registering the Hetchins name, and now making frames under that name.
> Maybe you're "OK" under the letter of the law in the U.K., but I just
don't
> know if that makes your actions right. Now, I don't want to get into a
> pissing contest with you, but I would very much like to hear your answer
to
> my questions. As I said, it was big of you to reply and I am only
> interested in a bit of civilized debate here. Please respond and let's
see
> if there are indeed more facts to this story that I'm mistaken about, or
> unaware of. Thanks for your consideration.
>
>
> David Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan USA
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Mark Reilly
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:48 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]hetchins
>
>
> Hetchins....
>
> Well it all started a couple of years ago when me and my business partner
> were registering domains names, we tried hetchins.com and were astonished
to
> find it wasn't registered, we did so immediately. We were always under the
> impression that the name was owned by a pop mogul or some such, however
> subsequent checks were made and in fact no one owned the name, company or
> indeed domains.In the past few years there had not been a single advert
for
> Hetchins, no address to write to, no number to phone!, why because there
was
> no such company. We thought this was a crying shame given the heritage of
> the brand, our next step was never taken with money in mind, just through
a
> passion for bikes. We purchased all the correct domains and paid all the
> government duties and registered Hetchins cycles ltd, a bona-fide
business,
> not someone working from home, not giving out their address, phone number
or
> even having a website.
>
> We wanted to re-create the greatness of the brand from years gone by and
set
> about making tools for lugs and chain stay jigs etc. We make absolutely
> everything in our own workshops, all by hand in the traditional fashion as
> taught to me by the brilliant Ron Cooper, a frame building artisan in my
> eyes. Only after we started to market and produce frames did we
receive -one
> and that has been the only one to date- an email from a mr David Millar,
> claiming that he owned the company. Again checks were made but it seems as
> per our first checks, he didn't own anything. If he really did then surely
> he would have the following things:
>
> an official website hetchins.com etc
> a genuine business address (you cant find a land address for his supposed
> enterprise anywhere in the uk)
>
> Frame building, who makes his version of hetchins frames? does anyone ever
> ask?, we make all frames ensuring that when you but a hetchins its made by
> hetchins, us. Mr Millar even lets another company make fake hetchins in
> Australia! surely that's not correct, we can't stop this due to the legal
> costs involved.
>
> Never at any time was it our intention to cause all of this fuss and
> controversy, we do believe that we had and have every right to do what we
> did, both legally and morally.
>
> Many Thanks
>
>
>
> Mark