Re: [CR]OT: Asian production of modern famous makes....

(Example: Framebuilding:Technology)

To: hturn@sbcglobal.net
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:03:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [CR]OT: Asian production of modern famous makes....
From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Henry Turner <hturn@sbcglobal.net> writes: "Is the word "misrepresentation" too harsh?"

misrepresentation?!?? subcontracting has a long, firmly rooted history in the bicycle making business. regarding outsource-ing, what is the difference if a milanese frame shop gets their work done in milan, umbria, or taiwan? who is the loser in this hypothetical? none of these guys/firms ever said they DIDN'T get their work from other sources; it's the consumer's perception that all work is done in-house. i'd venture a guess that if you asked any of these firms where their goods came from, they would tell you the truth. they might not say which factory does their work, but that information isn't really important, as long as the products are made to spec. e-RICHIE Richard Sachs Cycles No.9, North Main Street Chester, CT 06412 USA http://www.richardsachs.com Tel. 860.526.2059

On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 21:08:27 -0600 Henry Turner <hturn@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> At 09:16 PM 2/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >i think you're more upset by this than your hypothetical
> >consumers, joe and sam.
> >who got ripped off?!
> >neither got ripped off. they each bought what they set
> >out to purchase. presumably, they are happy *^%@!
> >campers. furthermore, each vendor profited from the
> >sale, based on the prices they and/or the marketplace
> >set for their wares.
> >your hypothetical is skewed. you say, "It does matter
> >where the work is done."
> >the issue here is marketing and brand perception. if both
> >bicycles are from the same factory (says you), i don't
> >see the relevence to the initial thread. and lastly, why make
>
> I believe the initial thread was:
>
> Angel wrote:
> > I was talking to someone recently that had been over to Taiwan
> (I
> > think that's where) for some bike business and the person cited
> a
> > long list of bike manufacturer names that were on bikes coming
> off
> > the same assembly; I don't remember the names but I do remember
> > being really surprised as the list included some respected,
> > including European, names.
>
> Is the word "misrepresentation" too harsh? Perhaps.
> It is a consumer problem . I would expect an Italian brand bike
> to be made in Italy. Am I expecting too much here? I have yet to
> see in an advertisement for any of the big names with a footnote
> saying
> "frame made in Taiwan bike assembled in Milano", for example.
> My point is know what you are buying. One does not buy Rolex just
> because
> it is a good time keeper. If that were the case Casio would do.
>
> Henry Turner
> Corpus Christi, TX
>
>
> >this a consumer issue by saying one buyer got ripped off.
> >why no take the vendor's side and say that the one selling
> >'low' got ripped off because he didn't read the market?
> >e-RICHIE
> >Richard Sachs Cycles
> >No.9, North Main Street
> >Chester, CT 06412 USA
> >www.richardsachs.com
> >Tel. 860.526.2059
> >
> >On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 19:34:03 -0600 Henry Turner
> <hturn@sbcglobal.net>
> >writes:
> > > It does matter where the work is done.
> > > For the sake of our discussion, we have two bike manufactures.
> > >
> > > A) is "Fignon" a well marketed, clean smooth lines, etc. etc.
> > > Their founder
> > > won the Tour de Cremora in 1976. Their basic frame set is
> > > $1700.00
> > >
> > > B) is "Minnow" little known company, not well marketed. The
> > > owner
> > > has bee in rehab four times. Their basic frame is $400.00.
> > >
> > > Both companies do not make their own frames. The are made in
> the
> > > Chang Moo Quack factory in Taiwan, which produces thousands of
> > > frames
> > > a month
> > >
> > > Joe Smith buys a "Fignon" frame, a Chorus grouppo, and has a
> fine
> > > time
> > > of biking.
> > >
> > > Sam Smith buys a "minnow" frame, a Chorus grouppo and has a
> fine
> > > time
> > > of biking.
> > >
> > > Who got ripped off?
> > >
> > > Whether well produced or not, Joe Smith paid $1300 dollars
> more
> > > for
> > > a frame that he could have gotten for much less. Build quality
> > > aside.
> > >
> > >
> > > Henry Turner
> > > Corpus Christi,
> > > Texas
> > >
> > >
> > > At 07:26 PM 2/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >they never <were> handcrated by "Luigi" in his small workshop.
> > > >that is an illusion that was born in the 70s U.S. bike boom.
> > > >also, why does it matter where the work is done as long as
> > > >it's produced well? it's a win-win situation. you can
> > > >subcontract in the next county or across the pond. you're
> still
> > > >doing the same thing: spec-ing a product and finding an
> efficient
> > > >method of manufacturing.
> > > >e-RICHIE
> > > >Richard Sachs Cycles
> > > >No.9, North Main Street
> > > >Chester, CT 06412 USA
> > > >www.richardsachs.com
> > > >Tel. 860.526.2059