Hi List, It's about time I put my two pence worth in here. I had the same problem as Martin.. In that some people refered to them as 'REPRODUCTIONS' which they are NOT !!!!! As Martin correctly stated these fine frames (as Hetchins and many other well known quality lightweights) were never built only by one person. Over the years the 'good builders' left to start-up on thier own account. The Bates family have been involved in the business from the start in 1936 to the current day and indeed both Martin and I still speak to Peter Bates on a regular basis. Anyone 'In the know' , will be aware that even the frame numbering is SEQUENTIAL, those numbers being issued BY Peter Bates when he retired full-time from the business. He is , to this day keep informed of the business in every respect. I was proud to have taken-on the production of the Bates Cantiflex Diadrant Framesets and further proud to have contributed to the continuance of such a fine piece of British craftsmanship. I have every confidence that this will remain the case in Martin's time. Ray..now twiddling thumbs..Etherton..Ex Owner Classic Bikes.UK