Excuse me for a interjection on this subject that perhaps should better now all go away and be forgotten, but I want to offer my final two cents worth. Some of us are relatively new to the list, and don't know anything about the clashes between individuals that have taken place in earlier times. I personally feel rather dismayed at the recent troubles. I am not so nieve as to think that such is not a fact of life, and there is really nothing to do but throw your hands up in the air and be resigned to the realities of interpersonal communications, but still I think that one has to try and be dutiful to the list as a whole, to the thinking of all the members as much as possible. I can read and infer the problems that led up to Ken's leaving the list, understand justifications, but at the same time I felt that his posts were meaningful to me. The messages that I had received from him off-list were cordial. If you have a problem with his behavior, well so be it for you, but if you go and take a on-list initiative that he should best be gone, even after the fact, I can't see how this has done me a good service. I like and much respect you guys, and I want to defer to your judgments and expertise, but I am not a person who doesn't get fidgety when someone else is deciding what is best for me. Aren't such list positions really in the realm of Dale's authority? Has Dale relegated this authority to others who have made E5 or better? Shouldn't we take advantage of Dale's generosity and apparent willingness to sort out problems in the way he sees fit, and thus give our 'dirty laundry' to El Capit'an? I can appreciate how hard it is to sit there with your mouth shut when there may be what you have perceived as a obnoxious entity in the midst, but I hope for a overall maximum generosity of patience, in support of all the members.
Just the worm talking to the sparrows...thanks.
Dennis Young Hotaka, Japan
>
> I appreciate your defence of Ken on the list. My point yesterday was
> along the lines of as long as Ken behaves and follows the rules that the
> rest of us do, there is no reason for him not to participate on the list
> as Ken Denny. But to whitewash Kens' offlist behavior and make people
> think that maybe Kens' detractors are fabricating or imagining what Ken
> has done to them and others is a little irresponsible in my opinion. He
> did send zingers to several persons onlist right from the first day.
>
> Each of us knows a slightly different person, based on our actual
> experiences with him and things that this small community with this
> interest observe about his dealings. Perhaps Ken treats you differently
> than he treats most others. Having talked to Ken and had email exchanges
> over a period of years; I suspect this is the case. I spent a fair amout
> of time yesterday responding to several persons who found my defence of
> Ken objectionable. I heard a few more "Ken stories" from people. I told
> them I had many of the same experiences and in fact I have a long list
> of my own that are not at all flattering to the way conducts himself
> offlist.
>
> As people, those of us who don't get their rind massaged by Ken have a
> more difficult time saying he is a good person. He is a good person. He
> is ALSO a person who does and says bad things that boggle the mind. So
> in all fairness, to invalidate all of us who know full well the part of
> Kens' behavior that is unacceptable; I have to say that Ken got what he
> deserved. I was hoping those of us who know how Ken well would cut him
> some extra slack and ignore the zingers long enough to see if this thing
> could settle in and work. Some may have been oversensitive too soon, but
> make no mistake, people are not making this stuff up. My position is
> that Kens' knowledge is welcome here. Many could benifit from it. The
> bad side of his behavior can stay away. If the knowledge comes with
> abuse, we will have to do without.
>
> Kens' reputation is due solely to his behavior and how he treats people.
> His use of fake names and his eBay antics are no secret to those who are
> affected by it. The reputation does not change by saying the bad part
> does not exist. Trust me Richard, it DOES. You seek to invalidate me and
> others when you say he was railroaded out. He's not here (as Ken Denny)
> right now NOT because anyone threw him off the list. He's being childish
> now, and if he doesn't want to come out and play it is now HIS choice.
> Ken is welcome to come play by the rules or sulk in a corner. Dale
> didn't give him a time out. If Ken's feelings are hurt, now you know
> what it feels like to some of these poeple, Ken.
>
> I like, and try to tolerate everyone. Ken included. But leave the
> baggage home. If anyone can't work with that, then lurk or bail out. All
> everyone is asking of Ken is keep a lid on it and don't go off on people
> offlist. For Ken, that is asking the world. Well, the rest of us do it.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> I know what it's like when Ken lets it fly. I suspect Richie has not had
> the pleasure of this experience.
>
>
>
>> wei yan
>> welcome to the CR list. in light of the sequence of
>> events that led up to thursday's "event", i think your
>> comment here is an auspicious way to post for the
>> first time. ken was invited to be on the list by dale.
>> his swift departure was a result people onlist being
>> unkind to him. in my opinion their behavior was completely
>> unwarranted. i've known ken for about 7 years. your
>> assessment of him, based on your "...reading the list by
>> way of the archives" runs counter to what i've experienced.
>> in the parlance of the streets, he got "jobbed". ken's
>> offlist now but his antagonists remain. not a cool
>> situation.
>> e-RICHIE
>> chester, ct
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 04:34:15 EST YrkRat9@aol.com writes:
>> I have read this excellent list by way of archives for awhile. Have to
>> write about your many many emails of support for the return of person
>> who I read said he was friends with Mr. Akihiko Amaki "Kauzo".
>> But I also read this person shill bid on his auctions. This did result
>> in winner Mr. Akihiko Amaki "Kauzo" (who I also met in Japan) paying
>> hundreds of dollars higher price.
>> Looks like from archives this same person is so unkind to many people.
>> Even with his knowledge you email about, his personal comments to others
>> are ugly.
>> Probably no one agrees, but I think the bad outweighs the good.
>> Wei Yan
>> Seattle