RE: [CR]Hobbs, Hetchins, First and Archetype

(Example: Events:Eroica)

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:47:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "joe starck" <joestarck2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [CR]Hobbs, Hetchins, First and Archetype
To: "Barbour, Christopher" <cbarbo01@ase.tufts.edu>
In-Reply-To: <F4101B22C99EFF4A883068E581D3DB2002707A86@exch-as1.ase.tufts.edu>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Chris Barbour asks, "How far back in time does the fleur-de-lis appear in bicycle lugs?" I'd like to make one last but important clarification on the use of "archetype," if I may, and yes, IMHO. Here it is, in the, yes, historical sense: The fleur-de-lis is a symbol of purity and goodness. If, say, some of you folks were reminiscing about a dear departed loved one, you wouldn't say "She was a regular fleur-de-lis." You would say, however, "She was a regular Mother Theresa" because "Mother Theresa" has become THE archetype for goodness, fleur-de-lis has not. And THE archetype for the opposite of goodness? His narrow-mustachioed face need not be mentioned here. That said, whoever finds the first appearance of the fleur-de-lis in bicycle lugs is a saint. Joe Starck, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin "Barbour, Christopher" <cbarbo01@ase.tufts.edu> wrote:Joe Starck's note suggests to me that the original posters were, if I may infer their outlooks, discussing different things. Hetchins most assuredly is what American enthusiasts think first when they think of the art or craft of fancy lugs. Bruce however is trying to establish an important fact in the _history_ of fancy lugs, and history uses different terms than art.

To the British correspondents on the list, who have seen bikes that many of us in America have not, Hetchins may not always have been an archetype in the artistic sense that Joe suggests. Perhaps they can point us to other makers of very ornate lugs in the style associated with Hetchins, Carlton, H.R. Morris, and Bates, especially with elaborate scrollwork and fleur-de-lis patterns. How far back in time does the fleur-de-lis appear in bicycle lugs?

Chris Barbour Boston, Mass.

-----Original Message----- From: joe starck [mailto:joestarck2003@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 1:05 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Hobbs, Hetchins, First and Archetype

Retreating to a dictionary to define archetype is to limiting for this discussion on "the history of fancy lugs." Within art and craft cultures an archetype is something which is best representative of something else, so much so that the two have become understandable as the same. Dolly Parton is an archetype for (fill in the blank) as Hetchins is an archetype for (fill in the blank.) Joe Starck, Groundhog Capital of the World, Wisconson

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