Only my own personal humble opinion .
The frame may be absolute crap , where ever it is today .
But , I really do like the look of it . And the seller seems to know what he's talking about , when the light-weight tubing is mentioned . And the frame is , "surprisingly comfortable to ride" . To me that sounds like the especially light PL tubing might be for real . And that bottom bracket looks very light .
One possible thought , and of course , I'm only projecting my thoughts into the head of person I actually know nothing about , but . . .
Maybe , possibly , might the frame builder have left the rear fork ends large , full-size , in some sort of attempt to stiffen things up back there , just a little tiny bit ?
And , YES , if I were making the decisions , at the time of building that frame , I'd drill one , or maybe three , holes in each rear fork end . Plus , I'd thin out at least the whole bottom edge , maybe some across the top as well .
BUT !! !!
About leaving the edges of the fork end ( or drop out ) sticking out past the outer walls of the tubing :
1.) I've seen frames where this was indeed the result of zero ( 0 ) preparation by the frame builder . It was simply due to not caring at all ! These are almost always frames that look "slapped together" and "rushed out the door" .
2.) I've seen frames where the edges were carefully rounded and smoothed , but still left sticking out ! It wasn't laziness , it was an artistic statement .
3.) I've seen at least one frame where the edges were actually filed down flat , but still left sticking out ! Again , an artistic statement . And there were sharp little corners on those little rascals !
4.) The ones I've seen sticking out like that , with some smoothing done to them , either rounded edge or flat edge , have been on bicycles from the 1940's , 1950's , and maybe 1960's . And yes , to do some fine finish work on them , but still leave them sticking out , was a rare idea . But it was sometimes done as a statement of artistic style . The first couple of frames I saw with that feature , were hard for me to accept . Now I've kind of grown to like it , sometimes , on some frames .
5.) And of course , we have all seen the "pointed" front drop outs offered ( today ! ) by Rivendell , highlighted by contrasting cream colored paint . They still stick out ! But there's a lot of obvious extra work invested , just to make sure you know it was done on PURPOSE ( thanks Curt Goodrich , thanks Joe Starck , thanks Joe Bell ) !!! I have a photo of the rear-facing , rear fork end , of a Peter Mooney track racer , with the those corners of the tangs of the fork ends still "standing proud" . I can't tell if they are "pointed" , or just filed off square . But , it was an artistic statement , to leave those corners "proud" ( it's a nautical term , for boat planking , if the board is raised up above the ones around it , either because it's become partially loose , or done on purpose , that board is "standing proud" )
6.) So , if I'd been making the decisions about that frame , I would have removed more metal , especially at the rear . However ! There is the chance that the edges of the fork ends really were finish filed , and sanded smooth , but still left sticking out . There is the chance that it does NOT indicate any combination of ; incompetence , laziness , or lack of time . But yes , with light-weight tubing , and light-weight bottom bracket , and fairly light-weight lugs & fork crown , it would have made more sense to remove some weight from the fork ends , especially at the rear .
I still like the overall appearance of that frame set though !
: ^ )
Raoul Delmare
Marysville Kansas
> e-MONKEY
> if you noticed, the stays are inserted a minimal amount.
> they are 'barely' inserted! perhaps that was the concession
> to 'pursuit frames-ish' weight savings. perhaps. maybe.
> perhaps. maybe. perhaps.maybe.etctera. etctera!
> it's really hard to qualify 'style' but i feel the focus put on these
> dropouts is a style issue. how different is this than all those
> raleigh team 753s in which the stays and forks are not
> brass-brazed shut? or or the french frames that have scalloped
> stays but the brass is not fully drawn to the edge of the scallop?
> do we consider that 'style' as 'unfinished'?
> e-RICHIE
> chester, ct
>
>
> Brandon Ives <monkeylad@mac.com> writes:
> On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 08:26 PM, Richard M Sachs wrote:
> > this frame looks correct and fine to me. chain and seat stays are
> > tapered to a smaller diameter; it IS a pursuit frame after all.
>
> Richard maybe it's just me, but what you say is just my point. They
> used the lightest stuff available at the time trying to get the weight
> down and then just tossed in some big ass dropouts. It's not so much
> the look of the thing that bugs me it's like they just went with what
> was easy. I'd think that a trimmed down set of those DOs would save
> almost as much weight as using PL over the SL tubeset. Of course maybe
> they just liked the square really angular look of them. They were the
> company that used the Raleigh style tubular fork crown on their
> high-end bikes after all.