good points about not relying on your brakes on a fixed gear.
most people do ride on the tops or hoods rather than in the drops, even on a fixie, though its easier to get leverage to slow your spin from the drops - my tip: have your brake lever be a barend shifter. youd be surprised how much braking power you can get out of it, i think.
but as john says - dont *rely* on it. riding fixed, especially in traffic, requires more awareness. if im riding fixed in traffic, especially downtown, im watching a block or two ahead of where i am, even more so than usual. it becomes second nature after a while, in my profession :) (had a guy from bicycling magazine interview me for a sidebar a while back, and i started listing off this huge list of things i watch and listen for in traffic, and it was almost overwhelming - someone reading it would think "how can i do all this?" - but its all 2nd nature to me now... i forget im even doing it...)
ive seen friends of mine ride stuff out on fixed that a braked freewheel bike wouldve ended up smashed from. its a whole change in how you approach situations, truly. you begin thinking less about "can i stop in time?" and more about "how can i ride this out?" and a whole new way of riding opens up. having spent some time on a fixie on the road, i ride my other bikes differently now.
that being said, what i also tell people new to fixed, especially on the road, is that while theres *less* things to go wrong with a simpler bike, all of them are catastrophic or nearly so... so a bike in proper working order is that much more important riding fixed... (not that you should ever ride a bike not in good working order, but a freewheel and brakes give you more leeway...)
my personal opinion has always been that theres no reason to not have a brake on a fixed, just in case, as that last-ditch emergency measure - but im fully confident riding without one, and dont at all think of a fixed no brakes on the road as *unsafe*. hell, in snow, its safer! ask any of my messenger friends from minneapolis or such places...
i was earlier going to apologize for opening up this can of worms on this list, but its certainly been some interesting reading... coming from the messenger side of things, i always wish that we had more access to track facilities - cause theres some messengers out there riding fixed who have some *amazing* potential and talent, without the facilities to discover the world of the track... though, as i was mentioning to someone off-list, its sometimes more like artistic cycling than track cycling! (ever seen someone bunnyhop a 6-foot median strip on a fixie? i should find the pics and post them somewhere...)
one of these days i should run around taking pics of all the cool vintage track bikes in the sf messenger community... theres some real gems out here- and around the rest of the world as well...
-joel
> Good to hear from you. Let me say this: what I advocate is the NON
>RELIANCE on brakes on any type of fixed gear use on the road. Use um if you
>have to . But not every time you have to stop. Use and develop your legs.
>Learn how to stop the bike quickly as if you didn't have brakes even though
>you do. Like down shifting from 5th to 2ed while Appling the brakes at the
>same time in your foreign sports car.
> I saw a training partner come within a foot and a half of get'n wacked
>by a car while he was trying to cross a blind intersection of the Horace
>Harding Expressway and XYZ Street (memory defeats me now). Why? Because he
>did something stupid. He relied on his brakes and not on his good judgment.
>You ain't gonna have those brakes on the track, so you had better get to
>know how to slow down and stop that bad boy quick. Certainly, she will be
>harder to stop in a higher gear. But one of the ideas of using the fixed on
>the road is to get stronger(at least for racer types). My track gear was
>48x14 (92 inches) road training 48x17 (76 inches."The Magic Gear" as
>referred to by Sammy because you could do any thing on it. And nobody
>should drop you. At least when your in shape).
> I will also say that one must use ones own good judgment. Don't go out
>on some unknown road with the big meat and do down hill sprints. But if you
>have a "safe" place, jezz, at least try it WITH a brake. I was spoiled
>early on ; I discovered the beauty of Prospect Park, Brooklyn at 13 years
>old.
> A brake will not intrinsically detract from the benefits Doc, but only
>if the tool is "applied correctly".
> I also contend that as you put it : " If you're on public roads and
>(are)
>interacting with pedestrians, traffic, etc. you (we) have a responsibility
>to do so safely" does not necessarily mean brakes on the fixed. It does
>mean riding in a responsible fashion. I admit I just am not as in strong as
>the old days. The older I get , the faster I was. But I could stop that bad
>boy just about as fast as any one on a road bike with two brakes. And I
>will stick by this point; once your savvy, your leg reactions will start
>stopping you faster then your hand go'n for the brake lever reaction( if
>your in the drops and not "on" the leavers or just on the top of the
>leavers. If your always on the leavers, then we will react about equally).
>But road riders with out track experience are much more likely to "get into
>trouble". And when you mix those guys up w/ experienced trackies, you'll
>always hear some shout'n. A "road rider" at the front and a trackie behind
>who is not paying close attention and looking over, under, or around the
>front rider is just itch'n for trouble. The guy in the front relies on his
>brakes to get him out of trouble, the guy in the rear (if savvy) doesn't
>get into the trouble in the first place (yea it always happens, but it is
>ALLOT less. At least in my 29 years experience). I do hope to join the 30
>year club next year.
> Maybe this casts alittle more light on this stuff. BUT if you want the
>real deal, come to The Cirque and lets all ride those fixed on the road type
>bikes. BETTER YET, come up to The Larz Anderson show and we get an early
>start to the good times. This conversation is always more fun in person.
>Especially over a cold one. There are some fun places in Boston and I for
>one intend to do whatever it takes to get my old bones to The Museum of
>Transportation and pow wow with the other cognoscenti; "those in the know"
>(gee that was reflexive. Hope it doesn't offend anyone).
> To all those who want a copy of the article, figure about three weeks.
>If you don't hear from me by then , please bug me.
>
>And to all a good night,
>John T.Pergolizzi
>San Diego, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Doc Simont" <mdsimont@snet.net>
>To: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
>Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:05 PM
>Subject: Re: Re[CR] Fixed Gear Braking
>
>
>> John,
>>
>> I think you've misunderstood my post. I was specifically refering to the
>riding of a fixed gear on the road *without brakes*. I don't care if
>> it's a track bike, fixed gear road bike (i.e., '50s British TT machines),
>or a converted multi-geared bike. If you're on public roads and
>> interacting with pedestrians, traffic, etc. you (we) have a responsibility
>to do so safely.
>>
>> Do you feel that the addition of a brake on a bike intended for road use
>*detracts* from the benefits you listed? If a fixed gear bike has a
>> brake on it do you think it should be removed before taking it out on the
>road?
>>
>> I will also apologize for the use of the phrase "(mis)use" as being
>somewhat inflammatory. I was simply trying to be concise, and would have
>> used the term "misapplication" if I thought it was appropriate in this
>case. (Can you misapply a bicycle?)
>>
>>
>> Doc Simont
>> Cornwall, CT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Pergolizzi wrote:
>> >
>> > Sorry group, but this got sent before being finished. It is now fit for
>> > reading:
>> >
>> > Doc Simont wrote (snip):
>> > "I think the relevant point here is (cut)it's the (mis)use of a bike
> > > designed for a
>> > particular use in an inappropriate environment."
>> >
>> > Sorry Doc, but your wrong one this one. I believe Chuck's
>"heh,heh"
>> > was tough in cheek sarcasm.
>> > What youse guys are missing is the use of the fixed gear on the road as
>a
>> > training device. Remember that fixed gear on the road was the "only"
>way
>> > not
>> > all that long ago.
>> > The specific benefits of fixed gear on the road were first
>explained to
>> > me by Sam Zeitlin (2ed to Disney, match sprints Nats in 67) Sam
>published
>> > an article on the subject in Velonews in 1977. I will gladly send a
>copy
>> > to
>> > any list member after my return to N.Y. at the end of the month.
>> > Basically, benefits include: developing muscle memory, development
>of
>> > opposing muscle groups, learning how to get "the BIG picture" (just
>like
>> > in
>> > driver's ed). You Loose dependency on brakes because you ride more
>> > conservatively and don't get your ass into "tight situations".
>> > For sure, it takes allot of rider attention, getting use to, and is
>not
>> > a training technique that would be used by a rider living in a super
>hilly
>> > area. Don't try a 48x14(92inchs) to start. 48x18 (72) would be much
>more
>> > appropriate. Even a little lower.
>> > The idea is to develop "spin", which is really the ability to relax.
>> > Since muscles can only so two things,contract or relax, you'll push
>down
>> > allot harder unless the opposing muscle group relaxes pretty quickly.
>That
>> > , plus power, is what sprinting is. Plus a little technique and
>tactics.
>> > Heh,heh.
>> > It is fun to ride the fixed gear road bike. You don't have to use
>it
>> > only to "train". And ANY bike can be fitted with at least a rear brake
>> > with
>> > out degrading the originality or integrity of the frame( through the
>use of
>> > a double brake hanger "plate" that sandwiches the seat stays at the
>brake
>> > bridge area). Even among racers training on the road, it was common
>enough
>> > to
>> > see this home made unit installed.
> > > Yes, you will have to "learn". Yes, their is intrinsic danger. Allot
>of
>> > danger in using a track bike on the track too! But if applied with the
>use
>> > of common sense, the design of the fixed gear road bike is appropriate
>for
>> > use beyond the track.
>> > Hope this sheds some light on the subject.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > JohnT.Pergolizzi
>> > Trackie and proud of it
>> > La Jolla, Ca.
>> > Brooklyn, New York
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>
>_______________________________________________
--
joel metz : magpie@messengers.org : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
bike messengers worldwide : ifbma : http://www.messengers.org/
po box 191443 san francisco ca 94119-1443 usa
==
i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
after she got that bicycle...