Stevan,
I wasn't comparing these frames to American standards; none of the classic Euro frames from this period compare to that. I was comparing them to the best Italian stuff; and like I said the variation is within a very narrow range. That top 5% to 10% of build quality is all there is between the "best" and "not quite the best" in my book. The next level down would be bikes of the Frejus, Ideor, Atala level stuff of the period.
Internally I have seen everything from Rene Herse, Masi, etc., etc. look the about the same inside. I make a distinction between frames where care was taken to make sure the seat tube is resting on top of the down tube completely and the whole junction is brazed together and frames where this is not the case. The Monte falls a little short of this respect. I went into my shop and looked at about 6 60's Masi Specials, an early 70's Italian Masi, 1951 and 1960 Rene Herse, early 70's Derosa, '58 Flying Scot, 70's Hurlow, Rossin, Tomassinni, 2 Cinellis (60's), 1960 Ireor, '70 Colnago and found that only the early 70's Ital. Masi, 1960 Ideor, and the DeRosa, skimped the same way as the Monte was done (double miter where each tube is mitered and neither meet inside. Works but not my favorite thing to see. I've seen the "Federal" model Rene Herse done this way also. Saves just a little bit of time. On these frames, if the brazing was cleaner and the little miter detail was there I would call these in the upper 5% of Italian frames of the period.
Be that as it may, if you do not find a home for the last 51 cm frame that is forkless; I'll take it. Just will ne a little time to save a few bucks.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
I generally have reasons for what I say. I don't just blow smoke out of
my ass just for fun.
>
> There is exactly one 51 ctc frame left, without a fork for $250. This one has
> Cinelli lugs and needs recessed brake fittings, probably long reach brakes. I
> don't quite agree with Brian that these are "B" quality, remember, we are
> talking about the critical eye of Brian Baylis here! He's right, they aren't
> perfect by American standards, and they do vary a bit, but I would say these
> fall well within the top 5 to 10% of build quality.
> Contact me off list for more details.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA