All, Everyone should read Gary's comments on eBay for as a watcher, buyer, and seller I concur with what he writes wholeheartedly...Lets drop the whinning thievery of bandwidth and get on with meaningful topics ("On Topics" that is).
See below from Gary Chottiner:
> Well, seeing that this thread continues, I'll go ahead and weigh in from the
> view of a frequent buyer of vintage, pre-1983 bicycles and components. At
> the risk (that I'm willing to take) of offending a few others on this list,
> it seems obvious to me that it is unethical to end an auction early to sell
> to someone else with whom you've made contact via the eBay process. One can
> rationalize it to oneself because of eBay fees or bad buyers, but the seller
> in this case is cheating eBay as well as every other potential buyer who is
> taking the seller at his or her word. You've advertised to me you are going
> to do something - and then you don't! If the seller is willing to sell at
> some fixed price, they should use the Buy It Now feature or list it on the
> CR! I refuse to buy from someone who sells things 'under the table' since I
> obviously can't trust them. When I do win auctions and want to purchase
> additional auction items from the same seller, I ask them if I can delay
> payment until the other auction ends or inquire if they have additional,
> unlisted things to sell; I wouldn't dream of asking them to end an auction
> early and cut off other bidders. I will, however, grant forgiveness to
> sellers who end auctions with no bidders or because of contacts not related
> to eBay, particularly if they mention this possibility in their eBay ads.
>
>
>
> On the topic of sniping, I do it all the time although I won't yet use
> software to help me (nothing wrong with it though). I started only after
> losing a few things to snipers and of course I was upset at first. However,
> on reflection, I really see nothing wrong with this practice. When the
> auction is almost over, I simply type in the highest amount I am willing to
> pay. The person who enters the highest bid wins, isn't that what an auction
> is supposed to accomplish? The only people hurt are those who can't make up
> their mind what something is worth to them, the ones who like to type in a
> dozen bids in the last 10 minutes of an auction as they ratchet up their
> lust. Sniping, to me, is really just a form of protection from these people.
> Those who want to enter their bids earlier are safe, as long as their high
> bid was higher than mine. If it wasn't, I should have been able to outbid
> them independent of sniping (just ask kauzo or allvitluxe). If you think an
> auction should be two people bidding back and forth against each other until
> one gives up, then I suppose sniping can be a disappointment but it's really
> no less exciting as you wait to see who wins from a dozen last second bids.
> I suppose that sellers might also get a little nervous but that's why they
> can set a reserve. I certainly don't see any reason to extend the auctions,
> just let the high bid win!
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Gary Chottiner Northeast Ohio
>
Hate to be so blunt...
Don Keenan
730 Grandview Meadows Dr
Apt O-203
Longmont, CO 80503
don-keenan@att.net
don_keenan@yahoo.com
Voice: 303-776-9977
Cell: 720-771-1077
> Well, seeing that this thread continues, I'll go ahead and weigh in from the
> view of a frequent buyer of vintage, pre-1983 bicycles and components. At
> the risk (that I'm willing to take) of offending a few others on this list,
> it seems obvious to me that it is unethical to end an auction early to sell
> to someone else with whom you've made contact via the eBay process. One can
> rationalize it to oneself because of eBay fees or bad buyers, but the seller
> in this case is cheating eBay as well as every other potential buyer who is
> taking the seller at his or her word. You've advertised to me you are going
> to do something - and then you don't! If the seller is willing to sell at
> some fixed price, they should use the Buy It Now feature or list it on the
> CR! I refuse to buy from someone who sells things 'under the table' since I
> obviously can't trust them. When I do win auctions and want to purchase
> additional auction items from the same seller, I ask them if I can delay
> payment until the other auction ends or inquire if they have additional,
> unlisted things to sell; I wouldn't dream of asking them to end an auction
> early and cut off other bidders. I will, however, grant forgiveness to
> sellers who end auctions with no bidders or because of contacts not related
> to eBay, particularly if they mention this possibility in their eBay ads.
>
>
>
> On the topic of sniping, I do it all the time although I won't yet use
> software to help me (nothing wrong with it though). I started only after
> losing a few things to snipers and of course I was upset at first. However,
> on reflection, I really see nothing wrong with this practice. When the
> auction is almost over, I simply type in the highest amount I am willing to
> pay. The person who enters the highest bid wins, isn't that what an auction
> is supposed to accomplish? The only people hurt are those who can't make up
> their mind what something is worth to them, the ones who like to type in a
> dozen bids in the last 10 minutes of an auction as they ratchet up their
> lust. Sniping, to me, is really just a form of protection from these people.
> Those who want to enter their bids earlier are safe, as long as their high
> bid was higher than mine. If it wasn't, I should have been able to outbid
> them independent of sniping (just ask kauzo or allvitluxe). If you think an
> auction should be two people bidding back and forth against each other until
> one gives up, then I suppose sniping can be a disappointment but it's really
> no less exciting as you wait to see who wins from a dozen last second bids.
> I suppose that sellers might also get a little nervous but that's why they
> can set a reserve. I certainly don't see any reason to extend the auctions,
> just let the high bid win!
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Gary Chottiner Northeast Ohio
>
>
>
> ________
> PREVIOUS MESSAGES
>
> I have to agree with Paul.....and also agree with the sentiments of Charles
> in a later post. I don't think its off-topic because the existence of ebay
> brings a lot of us vintage parts that were otherwise economically
> unavailable. Ebay is like so many other things in life in that there is no
> such thing as a free lunch. I have been burned but more often than not, i
> get fair (or in some cases more than fair) value for my dollars. People
> list items to sell them. Having had stuff 'sold from under me', I always
> assume that something could be sold off ebay. In fact its a seller's option
> to delist something as 'no longer for sale'. Thus, if its something i
> really really want, and the item is unbid, I always ask a buyer what they
> are looking for and sometimes pay it. I don't think it unethical for either
>
> of us to do so. Sniping too is part of the game and it would be nice if
> auctions could be extended....
>
>
> >From: halbike <halbike at yahoo.com
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> >To: Classicrendezvous at bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> >Subject: Re: [CR]The ethics of ending auctions early on vintage items on
> >eBay.
> >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:02:38 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >There are A LOT of games being played on ebay. Bidders
> >bid and retract without pentalty -sometimes because
> >other people offer bidders the same item for less,
> >sometimes for BID SHIELDING reasons(see ebay) Lots of
> >Bogus bidders do not pay and ebay only provides the
> >hollow remedy of negative feedback (They do not
> >require a credit card or positive id from bidders as
> >they do from seller). Fees are high and listing fees
> >still have to be paid if the bidder does not pay,
> >easily $5-10 on a quality item. If my auction has
> >reached what I consider a good price and the bidder
> >looks solid or is known to me -I sometimes end and
> >sell for the current price because it is in my best
> >interest-
> >
> >If you want to bid, bid. If you are playing last
> >miniute snipe games you might get left out--
> >Paul Genaro
> >Sidney NY
> >
> >--- OROBOYZ at aol.com
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> > > I just had a question from a list member about this
> > > (troubling in my opinion)
> > > tendency of late for sellers of old bike parts
> > > stopping auctions to accept a
> > > (presumably high) offer from a buyer, thereby
> > > nipping in the bud all standing
> > > offers from others.
> > >
> > > I have copied my response below, in order to elicit
> > > your opinions and
> > > comments. I think it is on topic because so many of
> > > us find the bits and pieces for
> > > our old bikes through eBay.......
> > >
> > >
> > > << I (believe) that canceling an eBay auction
> > > before it is allowed to run
> > > it's course is unethical on the part of the seller,
> > > and by logical extension,
> > > to the buyer.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, when one offers an item for sale in
> > > an eBay auction, that
> > > constitutes an agreement to enter into a
> > > pre-established defined system of trade,
> > > a set process, agreed upon "terms of sale".
> > >
> > > To allow someone (in this case, you) to make an
> > > offer that changes those
> > > agreed upon term or conditions. and remove all the
> > > bidders efforts to jointly bid,
> > > is a violation of this agreement and of ethics. If
> > > the other bidders were
> > > made aware of the "behind the scenes" offer and
> > > given a chance to beat it, that
> > > would be fair. But then we would be right back in an
> > > auction context as eBay
> > > allows.
> > >
> > > Ending an auction to accept a particular person's
> > > offer, to the detriment and
> > > elimination of all other bidders, eliminates the
> > > promised competition to buy
> > > at a highest bid. It simply is not playing fair.
> > >
> > > I personally would cease bidding on items placed for
> > > sale by sellers who
> > > ended auctions early to accept out-of-auction
> > > offers.
> > >
> > > That's my opinion.....
> > >
> > > Dale Brown
> > > Greensboro, NC