Re: [CR]early, light tandems

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2002)

In-Reply-To: <7BDDEECE-5482-11D8-AE41-000393004AFC@mac.com>
References: <7BDDEECE-5482-11D8-AE41-000393004AFC@mac.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:51:32 -0800
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "Jan Heine" <heine93@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]early, light tandems


Jack,

Thanks for posting the photos.

I wish I could try a Pedersen tandem. I once rode a single, recently built, and it was a _different_ experience. I could see riding one, and somebody did ride PBP on one in 1999. But I wonder how a tandem, with such different requirements for frame stiffnes, would work.

I would be interested in hearing from people who have ridden Durdsley Petersen tandems, either old or recently built ones. Same for people who have experienced the track pacer tandems, triplet, quads or quints.

I still maintain that as far as useful tandems are concerned, the 1930s stand out. A good French cyclotouring tandem weighed 26 kg in 1929, had 3 speeds, just a rear rack. (I am not aware of any other country that produced better tandems at that point.) In 1938, you had 10 speeds, or even 15, front and rear racks, useful brakes, and the thing weighed 18 kg, which is the same as today once you outfit current machines with fenders, racks and lights.

Many features were introduced around the turn of the century or earlier, as Steve Maaslands pointed out, but led nowhere. Maybe World War I was such a horrible event in Europe that everything before was forgotten, and had to be rediscovered.

The link from a 1930s Reyhand or Narcisse, via a 1948 Singer or Herse, via a 1960s Jack Taylor, to today's Santana et al., is very direct, and it shows in the bikes. (The French all knew each other's machines, Taylor built bikes inspired by the French, Santana imported Taylors before building their own.)

The earlier tandems from the turn of the century (19th to 20th) usually had frame tube configurations that were based more on fertile imagination than on rational engineering, the Pedersen being an exception. The track pacing machines shown in Toni Theilmeier's article in the last VBQ are amazing, but it is hard to see why tubes were arranged in the way they were. Each machine was different, showing that there was a lot of trial and error. By the 1930s, the configurations popular today had evolved. Back then, they preferred the triangulation with twin laterals, and it's hard to argue with the resulting machines. In fact, a few years back, Co-Motion offered an "extra-high performance" tandem in exactly that configuration, if I remember correctly. -- Jan Heine, Seattle Editor/Publisher Vintage Bicycle Quarterly http://www.mindspring.com/~heine/bikesite/bikesite/
>By 1898 Mikael Pedersen had a tandem down to 24 lbs/ 11 kilos.
><http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/images/imgmod/mdtandem.jpg> And
>those pacer track tandems were among the fastest vehicles of their
>time. http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/images/imgmod/tandem.jpg
>
>I think the Dursley-Pedersen tandem is a masterpiece. Has anyone
>seen one anywhere?
>
>--Jack "read somewhere that there weren't any surviving Dursley
>tandems" Bissell
> tucson, Az
>
>D-P home page:
>http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/index.html
>
>
>
>On Friday, January 30, 2004, at 11:32 AM, themaaslands@comcast.net wrote:
>
>>Jan wrote:
>>
>>>What I was saying is that performance tandems as we know them today
>>>made huge advances in the 1930s, due to the technical trials. For
>>>example, tandems weighing less than 40 lbs. appear to be a 1930s
>>>invention.
>>
>>What about early teens Dursley Pedersen tandems? I believe they too
>>were under 40 lbs. Same goes for track tandems and triplets. If you
>>dig deep enough, you will indeed find something that makes 30's
>>tandems unique, but reality would suggest that the period in the
>>30's was simply a stage in the evolutionary development of the
>>bikes that we now use. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>>--
>>Steven Maasland
>>Moorestown, NJ
>>>Lou,
>>>
>>>Good point... Of course, tandems were invented in the 1930s. Tandems
>>>are almost as old as the bicycle itself - even hobby horses were
>>>built as tandems!
>>>
>>>What I was saying is that performance tandems as we know them today
>>>made huge advances in the 1930s, due to the technical trials. For
>>>example, tandems weighing less than 40 lbs. appear to be a 1930s
>>>invention.
>>>
>>>So while we were perfectly happy on a 1948 tandem for 765 miles, I
>>>don't think a 1928 tandem would have been quite such a great choice.
>>>Much less a 1908 one.
>>>--
>>>Jan Heine, Seattle
>>>Editor/Publisher
>>>Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
>>>http://www.mindspring.com/~heine/bikesite/bikesite/
>>>
>>>>In a message dated 1/30/2004 10:48:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>>>chriseye@comcast.net writes:
>>>>I continue to be amazed by the machines that were built as
>>>>early as the late 1930s.
>>>>Had to have been a lot earlier than that, although quality is an elusive
>>>>issue I suspect, but the popular song, "Bicycle Built for Two"
>>>>certainly was about
>>
>>>>the turn of the 19th-20th century period. Lou Deeter, not as old as Chuck
>>>>Schmidt who might have been there, but old enough to have learned
>>>>the song in
>>>>elementary school. Orlando FL