Re: [CR]'Modern' classic frame finishing

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2004)

To: robertrreid@tiscali.co.uk
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:38:48 -0400
Subject: Re: [CR]'Modern' classic frame finishing
From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

bob thanks for the mention - but i'm not sure how this relates to me because i'm not one of the "thin the lugs, huh!" guys. i do file them, yes. but there's a small legion of builders that truly thin the f%$&*^ out of the lugs to the point that the paint almost neutralizes all the metalwork. chris kvale is one of the only yanks that both thins lugs to the maximum and also can have the fine-ness of it all show through the paint. few are in his league.

maybe the point you're trying to make isn't that tied to the issue of "...lugs with a raised centre (i.e. thinned down towards the edges) represent a lesser finished frame / poorer workmanship.". e-RICHIE chester, ct

On Fri, 21 May 2004 00:19:56 +0100 Bob Reid <robertrreid@tiscali.co.uk> writes: It's interesting to note the comparisons made between the finishing of lugs on frames made in 2004, with those made some fifty years earlier.

I find it difficult to agree with the opinion that somehow lugs with a raised centre (i.e. thinned down towards the edges)represent a lesser finished frame / poorer workmanship than the that done by the likes of e-Richie and other modern framebuilders. Not putting down the considerable effort by Richard that clearly goes into making a frame, but just as his (and others) style is the accepted practice these days for US builders, finely thinned lugs tapering lightly down to the edges was accepted practice back then, such that it was often noted as a 'feature' by some builders, certainly not a sign of a poorly made frame. I'm sure if builders in 1948 had IC lugs available, they'd have still thinned them down towards the edges.

Now gaps in the brazing or file marks are quite a different matter. On a frame built by Cinelli or anyone else for that matter, it's just a sign of poor workmanship from any era. No amount of rose-tinting on your spectacles is going to convince me otherwise that these are 'classic' traits. Absence of them wouldn't of course be a guarantee of a better frame just an indication of the level of basic engineering skill or lack

of, or of a builder that didn't care or a production process that didn't allow the time to take care. Crap in anyones book.

Bob Reid
Stonehaven
Scotland