Re: [CR]re: 80s Masis

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

From: <"richardsachs@juno.com">
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:43:15 GMT
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]re: 80s Masis


snipped: "if I'm wrong in any of my particulars above, someone please correct me."

i'm yeah-ing what you said. i don't 101% agree with the take on the raison d'etre* of cast lugs, but all that is in archives and doesn't belong in this reply. to wit, despite the "to each his own" rule, this list also serves as a repository for academic discussion regarding why things "are". i don't feel like keeping bruce robbins awake, so i'll be concise. masi, the name, turned into a brand in north america. by this 1984 date it was so far removed from even the original soucal mission statement that i don't see where the confusion begins; by then, they were labeled frames, made for the market - no different than the ones marketed by haro. true, the italian ones from previous eras were made by contract builders, but these were made <there>, and made under the watchful eye of the eponymous (don't ya' just LUV that word?) firm. chas - you are on the mark with your post.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct
*french for raison to be


-- chasds@mindspring.com wrote:


Kevin wrote:

Hi Joe, My 1984 Masi by Rob Roberson is the BEST RIDING BIKE I have ever owned. With the recent discussion about "BALANCE" and riding "NO HANDS", I can't stress how straight and true my 1984 MASI rides --- never had a bike feel so stable!!! As for the desire for visible file marks and thin paint on the early CA Masis,,,,,I've always considered these to be detractions from a frame, not a bonus. If folks really want these on a frame, then they would love and highly value the Mexican Raysport Cinelli-copy that I just purchased on eBay. It looks like a Cinelli, with Reynolds tubes and Campy rear vertical dropouts. And oh my,,,,very visible FILE MARKS on the drilled-out head lugs. Does this diminish the "ICK" factor??? In closing, BRAVO to your group of builders!!! I love my 1984 MASI, and never plan on selling it. I have to force myself to ride one of my many other classics over it. Highest Regards, Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA

*******

Been awhile since I read a post full of this many straw men, all of which have nothing to do with why some of us like the early Masis best.

First, a Masi made in 1984, and a Masi made in 1974 are not the same. They have different geometries. Different forks, different lugs.. higher bottom-brackets on the later frames, but I have not measured same and could be wrong there.

1) the fork bends on early Masis are a thing of beauty unmatched in vintage lightweights. The radius begins right at the crown and continues in a lovely arc right to the drop-outs. An aesthetic feature only, perhaps, but one that is very, very pretty. This fork-bend disappeared by the late 70s.

2) I dunno where this silliness about file-marks came from, and it has nothing to do with why the pressed-lug Masis are nicer-looking. The reason the pressed-lug Masis are nicer-looking is because the lugs are hand-worked, and show it. Not with file-marks (although there might be a few), but with lovely shaping that is not matched by the later cast-lugs. Some of the cast-lug bikes had lots of hand working of the lugs (the Confente Masi mentioned in a previous post comes to mind, and you can see similar hand-working on Mr. Sachs' Nagasawa... tough work, since those lugs are HARD), but usually, from what I've seen, the cast-lug masis were brazed up, cleaned up, and that was that. After all, that was the whole point of the cast lugs: to speed up the process of building, and make that process a little easier. The charm of a hand-worked frame is largely gone though.

3) Geometry: 80s Masis and early 70s Masis ride differently. The earlier frames are plushier, due to more slack geometry, lower bb shells, and longer wheelbases. The 80s frames are more typical of that period. More upright, quicker-handling.

3) Thin paint is FAR prettier than thick paint, on a well-made frame. The difference is so obvious and so incontrovertible, I can't imagine even arguing about it. Thin paint shows the frame-maker's art to best advantage. Thick paint just hides everything, and it's rather ugly to boot.

I owned one of the 80s Masis for awhile, and it was a very nice bike, of its kind. I am not slamming those bikes at all. To the contrary, they were very fine, and quite competitive compared to what else you could get then.

But let's stop with the straw-man of comparing the 80s frames to the 70s frames. Each may say Masi on them, but that's about where the similarity ends.

In all humility, get your facts straight Kevin, before making assumptions like those above. And, btw, if I'm wrong in any of my particulars above, someone please correct me.

And, of course, if you really don't want that early Gran Criterium in a 56cm when you find it, Kevin, I'll be more than happy to take that crappy frame off your hands.

Charles Andrews
SoCal