RE: [CR]Re-newed interest in the classic steel frame and otherramblin gs KOF, lugs etc etc

(Example: Framebuilders:Norman Taylor)

From: <"brianbaylis@juno.com">
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 03:47:00 GMT
To: faro@cistron.nl
Subject: RE: [CR]Re-newed interest in the classic steel frame and otherramblin gs KOF, lugs etc etc
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Freek,

Both types of traditional framebuilding, lugged or fillet brazed, require skill, and more importantly, practice. Either one or both are easily learned with practice. In both cases both the exicution of the brazing and the finishing bear on the end results. Good fillet brazing can be ruined by poor filing, poor fillets can in some cases be made good by good filing; but often bondo ends up being neccessary. When I do fillet brazed joints I braze them as smooth and consistant as I can, then finish file them to perfect junctions with beautiful radaii and no undercutting of the tubes. I do it all with a hand file; many like the air driven "Dynafile". Takes skill also, but not my cup of tea. I use fillet brazed joints on tandems and the triplet I'm building, certain areo tubed frame situations, and if that's what someone would prefer or require. Any odd configuration or junction can be done with fillet brazing, lugs are less versitile unless you intend to make your own. I fillet braze racks and other bits. I will have some fillet brazed work at the framebuilders show next March.

For me lugged frames are more work and require more skill, since lug modifications, intricate cutouts, and extensive reshapeing are time consumeing and requires above average level of skill. I enjoy a good fillet brazed joint, but they're pretty easy to accomplish. They deffinitely have their place.

The thing about lugs and heritage builders is that often "the hand of the artist" is recognizable in the design and exicution of the lugs and the other features of the frame. The stay caps, dropout treatments, fork crowns and even the bend of the fork. So it's less obvious in style to look at fillet brazing.

It's all good, but lugs are more distinctive in nature.

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA May build a trike frame someday, and fillet brazing may be the method.


-- "F.W. Faro" wrote:


All,

Having just returned from a short ride on my only-just-on-topic Rossin Record (83), I find the KOF debate flooding my inbox. Apart from observations on ride quality between the different steel bikes I own, I would like to ask this. What's the importance of lugs, either in KOF definition, or older bikes? It seems to me that fillet brazing requires probably more craftsmanship. And craftsmanship is what it's all about? Yes?

Freek 'proud owner of two fillet brazed, custom built, steel, bikes' Faro Rotterdam Netherlands

PS: now I have to find some time to finish building up the Scandium frame that's been lying around here. Will it ride better/same/worse as my beloved Dave Lloyd???

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] Namens brianbaylis@juno.com Verzonden: donderdag 11 augustus 2005 18:45 Aan: nickzz@mindspring.com CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Onderwerp: Re: [CR]Re-newed interest in the classic steel frame and otherramblin gs

Nick,

Ah, the age. Well the answer to that is generally "older as opposed to younger". BUT, as the new age of lugged steel frames emerges, the age demographic will fall dramatically. Reason is the "mountain bike" generation if cyclists who finally discovered road bikes by accident have begun moving from modern frame materials to traditional and classic frames and materials. Quality and style is always the direction people gravitate if they are really serious. Quality and style are untimately timeless once the trends pass. It's always safe to not compromise the quality and personal character of such objects.

I'm guessing most of my buyers are older, but before long I expect a new crop of interested parties. Everything from messinger types to who knows what. Not sure what I will do about it.

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA


-- Nick Zatezalo wrote:


The term demographics probably should have been a reference to the age of the customers.

Nick Zatezalo Atlanta,Ga

Nick,

Each builder's demographics will depend on a number of things. A certain amount on where they are located. Much based upon on what type of frames they build, and lastly how much they cost and what the wait time is.