Re: [CR]Constructeurs? Tires, NOW Wave of the future

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2007)

Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:56:29 -0500
From: Marcus Coles <marcoles@ody.ca>
To: hersefan@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [CR]Constructeurs? Tires, NOW Wave of the future
References: <111320052120.13982.4377AE010007351C0000369E2206998499020E000A9C9D0A08@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <111320052120.13982.4377AE010007351C0000369E2206998499020E000A9C9D0A08@comcast.net>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

hersefan@comcast.net wrote:
>Yes, I fully understand the idea that with a narrower tire can take more pressure (and has to in order to avoid snakebite pucnctures). But no pun intended, high pressure is over rated. Rolling resistance increases at a certain point as pressure increases because of the washboard effect. And it all depends on road surface.
>
>Everything is a tradeoff - and this can all be stated mathematically. But the basic point is that the optimum for most non-race long distance applications is a good bit wider than today's norms. I learned this first hand years ago when I started using Clement Del Mundos instead of Clement Crits and speed on long rides went up as slight (if any) performance declines from weight/aero/rolling resistance changes (from lower pressure) were more than compensated for by a dramatic decline in fatique from time on the bike.
>
>In fact, for most folks, a 650b tire with its dramatic comfort gains is probably the best all around tire. On short fast rides, I've discovered that my times are nearly identical to my times on skinny tires. But the comfort increase is dramatic. Plus, the comfort gains for long distance event rides are simply staggering.
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>For a long time I was reluctant to embrace the 650b idea. I didn't believe Jan Heine when he told me that his extra long distance rides were faster on 650b. I was certain that a fast 700c would be quicker. But then I put a 650b machine on the road and the way they roll simply blew me away. I could go for a spin on the 650b machine, than hop on the narrow tire tubluar machine and the skinny tires just feel slow. They feel like they are being constantly held up by road vibration while the wider tire just rolls on over everything.
>
>Now folks ask - so why don't racers use wider tires? Because in a race, acceleration is vitally important. Also, as you go faster, as stated elsewhere, aerodynamics play a greater roll. A fat tire has an aerodynamic dissadvantage that grows much more significant at higher speed.
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>This wide tire thing seems to create controversy since it is counter intuitive to most folks. A few years back, Garret Lai was editor of Bicycling and he wrote a piece on this topic after I pointed out to him that the magazine's tech writer botched the concept in an earlier issue. And I learned about the virtues of wide tires when Matt Wiebe, tech editor of Bicycle Retailer and Industry news, said to me "but Mike, of course you know that wide tires have less rolling resitance than narrow ones."
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>In time, I'm convinced the industry will discover this and capitalize on it. And when it does, the idea of what constitues the typical high-performance recreational road bike will be change.
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>Mike Kone in Boulder CO
>
>
> Mike,

I have no disagreement with a most of your points, I recently damaged the joy of riding my around town fixed gear by swapping the 27 x 1 1/4 wheels and tires for 700x23c on off topic rims although it looks ready for a time trial now, it is truly awful on some streets.

Personally I think the 650b thing is a lot of hype. Different tires ride differently the 650b tire you are using IMO would ride even nicer at a 700c Larger wheels roll easier and ride smoother over irregularities, ideally rider and frame size should dictate the choice of wheel diameter.

The need for different equipment for different conditions is a major part of the justification for the number of bikes I own, I therefore cannot possibly concede that most of them could be replaced with just one or two bikes with fenders, racks and fat tires. ;-)

For my observations locally I would say 100km is a maximum typical ride length to be encountered by the high-performance recreational rider, most seem to be able to handle this OK on race type bikes.

I think the industry had the right formula for this type of rider in the sport tourer of the bike boom era, but the execution was often poor and as one progressed up the price ladder one usually ended up on a pure racing machine with the drawbacks noted. A new name for the genre and availability at all component quality levels would be a must for it to succeed, but this version of the "Wave of the Future" is heading off topic.

Marcus Coles
London, Ontario, Canada