Re: [CR]Lugged frames v. fillet brazed..now v. bronze-welded

(Example: Production Builders:Teledyne)

Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 17:45:47 -0500
From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <20051203164843.31216.qmail@web25309.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Lugged frames v. fillet brazed..now v. bronze-welded
To: pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

<< Lets face it only the builders for certainty can tell how it was made we just ride them.>>

Absolutely!

One of my sponsored team members used to love to say " Don't ask me, I just ride them!" Ha ha..

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com

-----Original Message----- From: Michael Butler <pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: CR Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:48:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [CR]Lugged frames v. fillet brazed..now v. bronze-welded

Dale, With great respect thats why I think my definition encompasses everything and is a much better way of describing bicycle frames. There are loads of ways to assemble lugless frames and similarly lugged ones as you quite rightly point out. If I gave you a hand painted lugless Dayton or Enfied devoid of any decals or identification could you honestly tell me with your hand on your heart and with certainty if it was manufactured by American electric flash pressure weld or fillet brazed/bronze welding? Now when we get to lugged frames we can have brazed or silver soldered. Armstrong, Bertrands and Thanets were probably the biggest users of silver soldering. How about the sleeved types which were produced in the forties and fifties, the type that had the head-tube and head-lugs combined and they inserted an internal sleeve into this and the main frame tubes. This was either brazed or welded up, in truth these were very good frames as they were really extra double butted due to the internal sleeving and very stong and rigid. This all gets very complicated if you try to get too specific in your terminology where do Carminargents, Cavaprud's, Magri, Galmozi, Mercier Alumag, Leginox Alumag all fit in. They are all alloy classics some with lugs and others without. No the old timers had the right idea in calling them lugged or lugless in alloy or steel or nowadays in carbon fibre. Lets face it only the builders for certainty can tell how it was made we just ride them. Best wishes Mick Butler.


--- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:


> In a message dated 12/3/2005 4:16:52 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
> << I went on record a long time ago on this list
> that it would be far better
> to term frames lugged or lugless, this description
> would be far more apt. >>
>
> Dear Mick:
> While that certainly does describe a frame in larger
> terms (and assuming
> lug-built would necessitate a brazing process) then
> if it's "lugless", how is the
> frame assembled? Brazing, welding, bonding, screws,
> nails rivets or chewing
> gum? (Ha ha) So your definition works, it just
> leaves a lot unsaid. ("Some
> things are best left unsaid....")
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC USA
>
>

Thats all for now. Keep those wheels spinning, in your memories if not still on the road. Be lucky Mick Butler Huntingdon UK.