[CR]AW: Fake bianchi

(Example: Production Builders:Frejus)

From: "Michael Schmid" <schmid@zunterer.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <simonpj@mac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:05:32 +0200
Organization: Kanzlei Zunterer
In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODwr2UAaTzv00002ef1@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]AW: Fake bianchi

Hello Wyndham, The engraving in the fork-crown could also be read as ES. As the seller of the bike lives in Wolfratshausen near Munich this would point to a local bike brand and store of Edi Strobl in Brunnthal. As far as I know Edi Strobl is a former racer and has a nice shop for some years now. The shop marketed his own frames under the ES brand mainly in the seventies and eighties and probably aluminium frames today. . I think their frames were ordered at some of the bigger makers in close nothern italy. I have seen at least one steelframe with a different ES engraving at the fork crown. The script was more modern so the bike you have could be older. A lot of those bikes came in fancy cromovelato finish, which goes together with the chrome/nickel plating your frame. I remember those translucent finishes being very nice new but not very solid. The pint chipped off easily so someone might just have removed the rest of the finish to gain the chrome look. As the shop still exists you can contact them via radsportstrobl@gmx.de and might get some detailed informations. It is no wonder that the bike sports Bianchi stickers since a former distributor sold a lot of sticker sets recently via the Internet. You can buy them almost alway on german ebay.

Best regard

Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany mail: schmid@zunterer.com http://www.zunterer.com

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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:28:21 +0100 From: Simon PJ <simonpj@mac.com> To: Simon PJ <simonpj@mac.com>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Help ID fake Bianchi - detailed pics Message-ID: <C14556D5.2AC29%simonpj@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <C1447A1E.2ABB4%simonpj@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7

I have added more detailed photos of the 'fake' Bianchi that I bought recently from a German eBay seller:

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/simonpj

I have no reason to believe that the seller was trying to deceive by listing the bike as a Bianchi - especially given that the price was not high.

The bike is clearly a mix of parts from different dates; the frame looking to be end of 70's to early 80's (with top tube brake cable braze-ons), with the Campy parts spanning early to mid 70's.

The date mark on the cranks is 5 in a diamond - I assume that that is for 1975. The rear derailleur is marked Patent 73, and I believe the brakes are early 70's. I can't see any date marks on the Record hub lock-nuts, .

I would be very grateful for any information that list members might be able to shed on the pantographing on the Nuovo record parts.

The pantographing on the large chainring (with matching colours in the drilling on the brake calipers) would seem to be celebrating a World Championship relating to a 'B'. It's not the Bianchi 'B' - so what 'B' might this be referring to? (I have posted a detailed photo on Wool Jersey).

Can anyone shed any light on the identity of the frame? I have posted detailed photos of the logos engraved in the tops of the fork crown, and of the lugs and BB shell.

The serial number on the BB shell reads, small zero, then larger digits, 032700. At right angles to this number is "X 7" on the front side of the BB shell.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Wyndham Pulman-Jones Girton, Cambs., UK.

On 30/9/06 19:46, "Simon PJ" <simonpj@mac.com> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I noticed a message posted by Steven Maasland
> which outed an eBay auction for what purported to be a chrome framed
> Bianchi sporting some interesting Nuovo Record parts. The Buy-It-Now
> price was a very reasonable 289 Euros. I bought it. (Steven had
> alerted me to the fact that the bike was not a Bianchi, but the price
> seemed fair for the parts
> alone.)
>
> The auction page can be found under Ebay item #190029479525. I have
> also posted the photos to Wool Jersey
> (http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/simonpj/)
>
> The bike arrived yesterday. The seller was very pleasant to deal with,
> had packed the bike well, and after its journey from Germany to
> England it arrived in good shape. To the last part, the bike was
> spotlessly clean.
>
> The main mystery is the frame. Clearly not a Bianchi, the frame is
> lightweight, has fairly fine lugs, and contributes to a total bike
> weight of about 22 pounds. The fork and rear triangle do appear to be
> chromed, but the main triangle doesn't look like chrome to me - though
> it is very shiny. Could it be the nickel plating that was underneath
> the original paint finish?
>
> There are markings on each side of the fork crown from which the
> letters S and D can be identified, plus one other possible letter
> which looks like a backwards B linking the smaller S and D. I will
> post more detailed photos to Wool Jersey tomorrow.
>
> The chain rings are elaborately pantographed with rainbow colours and
> a B which is not the Bianchi B, and the brakes are also neatly drilled
> and filled with rainbow colours.
>
> The 26.4mm Nuovo Record seat pin was the wrong size - it should be
> 26.8mm. The wheels are GP4's on Record hubs, fitted with new Wolber
> tubs. New bars and stem have been fitted, along with Mavic brake
> levers which I found very uncomfortable on the first ride that I had
> on the bike today.
>
> I'll post more photos tomorrow to Wool Jersey, in the hope that
> someone might be able to identify the frame.
>
> Wyndham Pulman-Jones
> Girton, Cambs.,
> UK.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________

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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:47:16 +0100 From: Simon PJ <simonpj@mac.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]BB with 2 adjustable cups? Message-ID: <C1455B44.2AC2B%simonpj@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8

I failed to mention in my previous post about the 'fake' Bianchi that the bottom bracket is a type that I do not recognise (which appears to be very well made), with adjustable cups on both sides.

Is this type of BB intended to allow adjustment of the chain-line?

Thanks,

Wyndham Pulman-Jones Girton, Cambs., UK.

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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:17:00 +0100 From: "Joe King" <joeking@fastmail.fm> To: "Simon PJ" <simonpj@mac.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]BB with 2 adjustable cups? Message-ID: <1159705020.21896.272263478@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <C1455B44.2AC2B%simonpj@mac.com> References: <C1455B44.2AC2B%simonpj@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9

Hello Wyndham Sounds like a sealed unit bottom bracket assembly that slides in and is held in place by two lock-rings. Yes you can alter the chain line on these type very fractionally. Typical makes are Bador and Nadax-Favorit which fall within the CR time line 1981. Does anyone have any trouble answering emails to siscom and AOL users? Have tried to contact the List Master and Aldo several times and they keep bouncing back? Croeso Cymru Joe King Nr. Maenaddwyn Ynys Mon Wales

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