I suspect the dislike of C-Record/Victory/Triomphe is a big reason our esteemed listmeister chose The 1983 cutoff date, rather than letting it progress to 20 years before the current year as it did early in the history of the CR list.
Personally I have a different view of these gruppos, as I think they addressed several shortcomings of Campy compared to French components and to Shimano and SunTour components which were already becoming important competitors.
The C-Record was the first short-cage Campy RD (I think maybe the Rally was earlier) to use a spring-loaded upper pivot which Simplex had used since the 60's or maybe even late 50's. This improved shifting, especially when using a fairly wide gear range.
Wider range gearing was also provided by the smaller bolt circles of 116 BCD on Victory/Triomphe and 135 on C-Record, allowing the Victory/Triomphe cranks a wider range than Stronglight or Zeus and C-Record at least closer to the range of rings with Dura Ace. Of course, the 116 BCD 5-arm eventually became an "orphan" size, but Valentino could not have foreseen that.
And I think we often overlook what I believe are the very excellent C-Record "retrofriction" downtube shifters, which IMHO work as well as Simplex and don't have the large lever movement that some find annoying about the Simplexes.
And even the Delta brakes, if adjusted properly, work much better than their reputation would suggest.
None of the above components, except maybe the Deltas, were really a break with classic design, but rather represented answers to features already offered by competitors well within the CR timeline.
Allowing the CR cutoff to adjust each year would, it is true, allow such "modern" features as indexed shifting and clipless pedals, but Campy was not the company to first offer these.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
oroboyz@aol.com wrote: << I've always thought that the Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe (and
C-Record as well) weren't introduced until 1986, as the #18 Catalogue (printed
1985) shows not a mention of them at all. >> I myself am not sure about exact dates... but philosophically, I think Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe fit better after the CR cutoff.
In other words, it was that period in which Valentino Campagnolo "did his own thing", introducing new, marginally engineered components and started phasing out his dad's stuff (GS, NR & SR).
I view Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe as the beginning of an embarassing period (including "C-Record") and it took at least ten years, plus or minus for them to get out of the slump. Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: dbilenkey@sympatico.ca To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 7:52 PM Subject: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe question
Now Dale, before you go giving me the heave-ho, please indulge me this question of our esteemed members. It is Campagnolo and it is non-aero and friction shifting. :-)
Replies off-list though if you please so as to keep me out of hot water!
Having gotten into a long winded email discussion with a eBay seller about these cranks:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/
Trying to convince him they were Triomphe and not Victory, got us to his assertion that his 1984 Gitane (see borderline to the cut-off date) came with this equipment and me saying he must have his dates off. He pointed to this catalogue pic:
http://www.gitaneusa.com/
I've always thought that the Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe (and C-Record as well) weren't introduced until 1986, as the #18 Catalogue (printed 1985) shows not a mention of them at all. And then in this discussion he points me to:
and specifically:
http://campybike.com/
So this has me questioning a large part of my memory, and has me about to haul out boxes and boxes of Bicycling, Winning and Cyclist magazines to figure out when this stuff actually came out.
Can those who have data and recollection about when Victory and Triomphe were available please drop me a line (off-line) and either back me up or shoot me down?
Thank you,
Now back to your regularly scheduled CR discussion...
David -- David Bilenkey Ottawa, Ontario, Canada dbilenkey@sympatico.ca