Simon:
In my opinion, nothing Socialist about your comments, just your observation of societal patterns & class structures (which in turn might feed socialism, but have nothing to do with espousing same ...or not!
I agree that in the UK and Europe in general, the bicycle trade is most often practiced as a more or less blue collar, "tradesman" endeavor... and in the States we tend to elevate those craftsmen to artist and epicurean status.
Just a cultural difference and simply the way it is. Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: simonandonandon@yahoo.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 6:12 AM Subject: [CR]RE: Respray costs
my experiences of living and working in the US for several years and here in london where i grew up have lead me to think there is a difference in attitude in both countries towards high quality 'craft work' and the value placed on it by both the producer (who will call themselves an artisan if they expect more money) and the end user. fwiw i work in the manual trades as a carpenter/cabinetmaker but trained and worked as a sculptor for many years.
in my experience working in nyc and marin ca., people with a high level of skill, who produce good work are held in higher esteem in the states than here. they charge more in actual terms (simply using current exchange rates gives a very skewed picture)and are valued higher socially. however they also seem to value themselves higher- possibly too much pirsig-. middle class/hippie/artist tradesman (of which i am one) can be a bit up themselves.
at the risk of being dubbed a socialist (that vile slur) i believe this is to do with the british class system. tradesmen must know their place etc. etc.
there is also a cap, in both countries- on how much you can charge if your work is just seen as labour+time+materials. the best way to add value is adjusting the the end user's perception of the event or the item, americans seem quite good at this, hence signed paint jobs on bicycles ( see i brought it back to bikes in the end).
i think mario vas does own his workshop, if he rents it it would be v cheap. he is probably very quick (he's painted thousands of frames) doesn't overly fuss the details (its only a bike after all), and also isn't interested in being RICH (there are still some).
by the way flawed economic analysis is not 'socialist' -per se.
simon bird peckham london england
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