Re: [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur date

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing:Falck)

In-Reply-To: <000001c7be8a$0e1c2bc0$6801a8c0@velostuf>
References: <000001c7be8a$0e1c2bc0$6801a8c0@velostuf>
From: "Chuck Schmidt" <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur date
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:29:43 -0700
To: CR RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>


So what's your opinion John? Was the "PAT. 72" stamped Type 1 Super Record rear derailleur Karen saw on eBay assembled in the factory in 1972 or was it assembled in the factory 1973 with a '72 top piece?

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, CA USA

On Jul 4, 2007, at 3:24 PM, John Barron wrote:
> I have personally seen (and/or owned) Type 1 Campag Super Record
> rear ders
> dated as early as 1973 and as late as 1984! On each one of these, I
> had
> absolutely no question that it was factory and original. I have always
> thought that the earliest Super Record components came on the scene
> in 1973,
> because I have never seen a rear der dated earlier than 1973.
>
> I was particularly surprised when I saw (and bought) one each of
> 1983 and
> 1984 type 1 SR rears in perfect, NOS condition with boxes. I
> acquired these
> at a swap meet in Tokyo. Neither one had the CPSC black plastic
> thing on the
> adjuster screws.
>
> John Barron
> Minneapolis
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:29:29 -0400
>
> From: "krawls" <krawls@visuallink.com>
>
> Not too long ago there was a 1972 Type 1 Super Record derailleur on
> ebay. I
> have seen both Type 1 and Type 2 in 1978 and one Type 1 1979.
>
> Karen Rawls
> Winchester VA USA
>
>
>
> from Chuck Schmidt chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> to CR RENDEZVOUS classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> date Jul 4, 2007 4:43 PM
> subject [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur
> date
>
> What follows is all idle conjecture on my part so take it for what
> it is
> worth...
>
> I'm guessing that the top part of the derailleur that is dated, the
> one
> that's black anodized and IDENTICAL on both the Type 1 Super Record
> derailleur (similar to Nuovo Record) and the later Type 2
> (modernized with
> script logo, no checkering texture, different pulley cage), might not
> EXACTLY reflect the year of manufacture in ALL cases (most, but not
> all).
>
> That part would be cast, stamped with the date and then anodized
> and put in
> the parts bin. It is not unimaginable that a worker would then
> assemble a
> Type 2 Super Record derailleur with an older dated top piece still
> in the
> bin.
>
> There are more than a few Type 1 and Type 2 derailleurs using the
> "PAT. 77"
> top piece, which could indicate that 1977 is the intro date for the
> Type 2,
> but it could also mean that the Type 2 was assembled in 1978 with
> the "PAT.
> 77" top.
>
> The year 1978 was a year of lots of changes in the Super Record
> product
> line: from the Timeline...
>
> 1978 - C.P.S.C. (Consumer Product Safety Commission) mandates
> changes to
> NR/SR. Included are a front derailleur lip, 2.5 mm increase in spacing
> between crank spider and arm to clear the front derailleur lip with
> corresponding increase in bottom bracket axle length, a curved
> quick release
> lever and ball-end added to quick release conical adjuster, dome-
> shape added
> to quick release cam lever on brake calipers, plastic covering
> added to the
> wheel guides on the brake shoes, and plastic safety-shields added
> to rear
> derailleur screws. The word "Patent" is changed to "Brev." on the
> chainring,
> chainring bolts and crank dust cap. Tullio Campagnolo is bestowed
> with the
> Stella D'Oro (Golden Star) award by the C.O.N.I. (Italian National
> Olympic
> organization) for his contributions to sport.
>
> 1978 - Catalog #17a Supplement is printed for the year-end trade
> shows.
>
> Included are a revised Super Record derailleur with script logo and
> different cage geometry (28 tooth capacity), single bolt Nuovo
> Super Record
> seat post, Record front derailleur with four holes in cage (later
> to be
> three holes), straight-band clamp (later to revert to traditional
> pointed-band clamp), short Nuovo Record dropouts without eyelets
> (drilled
> and tapped for chain holder), chain holder
>
> (Portacatena) with accompanying control lever and trigger, and
> fixing shoe
> plate for pedals. Gran Sport front derailleur (Record-style plain
> cage with
> lip stamped with Globe logo), Gran Sport crank (flat bottom
> fluting, 170mm
> length), Gran Sport pedal (stamped steel races and engraved "Gran
> Sport" on
> barrel), Gran Sport brakeset (different adjuster and engraved "Gran
> Sport"
> on caliper; black brake hoods with Globe logo). Nuovo Valentino front
> derailleur (flat arms, Record- style plain cage with lip, stamped with
> Winged QR logo).
>
> I remember the Type 2 being available in 1979 (Bikcology catalog
> "New for
> '79") and I believe a "PAT. 76" Type 2 Super Record rear derailleur
> was
> assembled from earlier parts by the factory and was not actually made
> (assembled) in 1976.
>
> Anyone else have thoughts?
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, CA USA
> http://www.velo-retro.com (reprints, t-shirts & timelines)
>
>
> On Jul 4, 2007, at 4:40 AM, Hilary Stone wrote:
>
>
>> There's plenty else of interest amongst the frames including a fairly
>
>> Stallard but the highlight for me amongst the parts is a Campagnolo
>
>> Super Record type 2 rear gear dated 1976... We have seen and heard of
>
>> type 1 SR rear gears from 1977 and 1978 and a type 2 from 1977 but a
>
>> type 2 as early as 1976 is not something even I thought existed. It
>
>> does show that Campag were producing both types of SR rear gear for
>
>> quite a considerable period of time. If they did that for the SR rear
>
>> gear can we ever really establish a sequential timeline for any Campy
>
>> component with any certainty?