[CR]Aluminum water bottles and cage

(Example: Framebuilders:Richard Moon)

From: "Alistair Johnston" <synertik@telus.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <MONKEYFOOD4EQxD13S700001957@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:07:11 -0700
Organization: Synertik Strategies and Solutions Inc
In-reply-to:
Thread-Index: AcfMzELVTaUsoUKMSzmB93LTXvXGigAAXWDA
Subject: [CR]Aluminum water bottles and cage

Greetings All, I am on the hunt for a set of two aluminum water bottles with cork stoppers circa late 40's and cage for a late 40's Ernie Clements. Also I need a lead on a set of Pellissier leather toe straps for Chater Lea pedals. Hope all are well. Alistair Johnston White Rock, BC Canada

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: July 22, 2007 6:47 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 55, Issue 81

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re[2]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions (dima) 2. Re Gregs Decals 3. Re: Re[2]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions (Kurt Sperry) 4. Re: Dating a Raleigh RRA (P.C. Kohler) 5. Re[4]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions (dima) 6. Early French Bike Seatposts 7. Re: Early French Bike Seatposts (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 8. Wired-on vs. clincher (John Betmanis) 9. Re: Early French Bike Seatposts (Fred Rednor) 10. PC Fixed Gearing (Doug Smith) 11. Looking for some panto'd Colnago parts (Walter Nash) 12. RE: Using cheap Marine bearing grease and other Jobst Brandt ideas (David Toppin) 13. Re: Pic of the Day - Innovations That Changed the Tour de France (John Betmanis) 14. Pic of the Day - Altig's Broken Fork (Aldo Ross) 15. Suntour bar-end shifters springs (Harvey Sachs) 16. Fwd: [CR]Politically Correct Fixed Gearing (Mark Fulton)

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:04:53 -0400 From: dima <dima@rogers.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re[2]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions Message-ID: <1182033474.20070722150453@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> References: <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: dima <dima@rogers.com> Message: 1

Hi Neil,

Again, thanks to you and Peter for lots of helpful suggestions. I would like to clarify something about the wheels/rims though: both ebay auctions for rims that you mentioned specify that the rims are "wired on". Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean? Is it different from regular modern "clincher" wheels, and if so (as I'm afraid it is) what tires are available currently?

Thanks.

-- Cheers, Dmitry Yaitskov, Toronto, Canada.

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:33:53 EDT From: CPOTZ@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re Gregs Decals Message-ID: <d05.13ff5501.33d50b21@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2

I bought a set of Guerciotti decals about a month ago from Greg in Australia , my mate paid using his Paypal account, they arrived within 8 days, unfortunately without the Columbus transfers and the Made in Italy transfer, after informing Greg who apologised profusely they were on their way with an extra made in Italy transfer ..they are it has to be said excellent, although not waterslide they are hard to tell the difference when varnished over using acrylic especialy if you cut off the extra clear bit...I recomend them 100% for the hard to get transfers you can't get from Llyods.

Steve Chambers Chesterfield Derbyshire England

p.s how can I get a pair of Campagnolo hoods for mid late 70's levers?

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:37:32 -0700 From: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com> To: dima <dima@rogers.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions Message-ID: <75d04b480707221237l641df11v92649d63d37b132f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1182033474.20070722150453@rogers.com> References: <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> <1182033474.20070722150453@rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: haxixe@gmail.com Message: 3

"Wired-on" = clincher.

Kurt Sperry Bellingham WA USA

On 7/22/07, dima <dima@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Neil,
>
> Again, thanks to you and Peter for lots of helpful suggestions. I
> would like to clarify something about the wheels/rims though: both
> ebay auctions for rims that you mentioned specify that the rims are
> "wired on". Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean? Is it
> different from regular modern "clincher" wheels, and if so (as I'm
> afraid it is) what tires are available currently?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Dmitry Yaitskov,
> Toronto, Canada.
>
> _______________________________________________
>

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:46:55 -0400 From: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Dating a Raleigh RRA Message-ID: <001201c7cc99$0f2a4700$b8cb3ad0@peter5ca78cb10> References: <BAY141-F4054F99BE7FC572C37D574BFF50@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4

Yes, both of these are CLINCHER rims. The Dunlops are true British cycling classics of the era, extraordinarily light and a lovely pattern. They would be very appropriate for an RRA especially one from the 1950s. I have these on my '58 RRA Moderne. Excellent with 27 x 1" (not 1 1/4") tyres which you can still get on eBay (I am using Japanese copies of the Dunlop HP tyres on mine).

You will love this machine when you get her on the road. I had three hours on my '48 today... I am almost forgotten the sublime delight of this machine when ridden hard, flat out with the distinctive "tick-tick-tick" of the Sturmey-Archer FC hub and unmatched smoothness of a hub gear. She took on all comers and bested the lot of them. Just outstanding for a 59 year old machine.

Peter Kohler Washington DC USA

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:07:14 -0400 From: dima <dima@rogers.com> To: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re[4]: [CR]RRA - thanks and more questions Message-ID: <656938739.20070722160714@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <75d04b480707221237l641df11v92649d63d37b132f@mail.gmail.com> References: <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> <1182033474.20070722150453@rogers.com> <75d04b480707221237l641df11v92649d63d37b132f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: dima <dima@rogers.com> Message: 5

Sunday, July 22, 2007, 3:37:32 PM, Kurt wrote:
> "Wired-on" = clincher.

Thanks.
> Kurt Sperry

-- Cheers, Dmitry Yaitskov, Toronto, Canada.

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:18:06 -0400 From: averyallen@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Early French Bike Seatposts Message-ID: <8C99AB48C6999EB-11A8-969C@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6

Listers and Listees,

Peugeot used JPR seatposts in the early 1980s.? 26.4 of course.

David Allen Marietta, Georgia near the Big Chicken ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:30:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: averyallen@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Early French Bike Seatposts Message-ID: <427918.15166.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <8C99AB48C6999EB-11A8-969C@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 7

JPR posts were cool, but I don't remember them on Peugeots, although it's possible. Don't bet on 26.4 26.6 was at least as common and 26.2 was not unusual.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX

averyallen@aol.com wrote: Listers and Listees,

Peugeot used JPR seatposts in the early 1980s.? 26.4 of course.

David Allen Marietta, Georgia near the Big Chicken ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

_______________________________________________

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:31:44 -0400 From: John Betmanis <johnb@oxford.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Wired-on vs. clincher Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20070722163144.01332260@mailhost.oxford.net> In-Reply-To: <1182033474.20070722150453@rogers.com> References: <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> <BAY141-F25D45274B9B1437E52A01DBFF60@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8

At 03:04 PM 22/07/2007 -0400, dima wrote:
>like to clarify something about the wheels/rims though: both ebay
>auctions for rims that you mentioned specify that the rims are "wired
>on". Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean? Is it different from
>regular modern "clincher" wheels, and if so (as I'm afraid it is) what
>tires are available currently?

"Wired on" is actually the correct term. A "clincher" is a certain type of antique car tire. More than 20 years ago I remember Bicycling magazine making a big deal of this. Alas, over the years with the Internet helping illiterate people, "clincher" appears to have become accepted usage.

John Betmanis Woodstock, Ontario Canada ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:45:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Early French Bike Seatposts Message-ID: <220338.61315.qm@web30609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <427918.15166.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 9

> JPR posts were cool, but I don't remember them > on Peugeots, although it's possible. Don't bet > on 26.4 26.6 was at least as common and 26.2 > was not unusual. Jerry, The Peugeonauts were a crafty firm - my PGN-10 and my friend's PSV-10 had JPR posts, despite what the company's brochures may or may not list. Mine was 26.4mm, although the post on the PSV-10 could have been 26.6 as it was made from lighter tubing. I suspect they were used on other models, as well. Cheers, Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)

____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:53:25 +0000 From: Doug Smith <douguk2007@hotmail.co.uk> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]PC Fixed Gearing Message-ID: <BAY103-W2287A41667132530F626C190F60@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10

Steven Johnson wrote:-
>From what I have been told, and not based on experience, a track bike geared for a velodrome should use about an 81 inch gear. Would a grass track racer use a lower or higher gear than a velodromerider? Any experien ced grass track racers out there? Steven, Being a competitive rider in the 1950/60's the majority of club fol k raced and toured on a single fixed wheel bike. Apart from road racing activities the gear ratios on the hard surface track it would have been anything from an 85" to 90" ish. distance of the discipline one was riding.

As for grass track competitions a mid 60" to 72" was normal due to the extra drag on the grass surface. These particular programme of events were not over popular here in the south of the UK at the time. I remember it was always supported by the the "pot hunters" who made their annual rounds where the non cash prizes were always of good value.Others entered just for the fun of the occasion in support of the organisers.

For grass track riding total fitness was a priority, hard graft it was called! The other drawback was if you fell or got knocked off in a pile up one found in place of the normal grazes or cuts became a painful burn after sliding along the grass surface. A memory that will never fade I still shudder today with very the thought of it! At least the bike damage was minor!

Happy days!!

Doug Smith North Dorset UK

_________________________________________________________________ 100's of Music vouchers to be won with MSN Music https://www.musicmashup.co.uk/index.html

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:55:18 -0700 From: "Walter Nash" <wbnash@msn.com> To: "classicrendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Looking for some panto'd Colnago parts Message-ID: <BAY118-DAV17DCC8FC1022AA1E969BD1C4F60@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11

I am looking for some pre-' 84 items that are Colnago pantographed: seatposts, chainrings, brake levers, bars, stems, etc. Anything out there anyone wants to part with?

Walter Nash Tucson, Baja AZ USA

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:35:53 -0400 From: "David Toppin" <dave@pelletizer.com> To: "'Bianca Pratorius'" <biankita@comcast.net> Cc: "'Classic Rendezvous \(E-mail\)'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Using cheap Marine bearing grease and other Jobst Brandt ideas Message-ID: <00c101c7ccc1$8ef517d0$6801a8c0@DELLLAPTOP> In-Reply-To: <395cdf391f082418b397e6d9d15493d6@comcast.net> References: <395cdf391f082418b397e6d9d15493d6@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="windows-1250" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: dave@pelletizer.com Message: 12

I usually buy balls from MSC direct. I find them to be a good source of hard to find stuff.

David Toppin dave@pelletizer.com http://www.pelletizer.com <------ see our complete, searchable inventory.

The Pelletizer Group, Inc. 4 LaChance Street Gardner, MA 01440-2476

(978) 669-0060 (978) 669-0061 fax

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Bianca Pratorius Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:29 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Using cheap Marine bearing grease and other Jobst Brandt ideas

A google search of Jobst Brandt's curmudgeon type ideas present some very interesting concepts. Some of these are new to me.

Jobst Brandt feels that regular grade 25 ball bearings are good enough in a bicycle cup and cone bearing situation. Campagnolo's overpriced matched bearing marketing of the same grade of bearings he believes is overkill. He says this because he believes the ball bearing is not the weak link ... it's the cups and cones. Ceramic bearings would also be overkill. A quick search reveals that all the common sizes of grade 25 ball bearings used in bicycle work are available from Loose Screws for $22 in an assortment package. This includes a plastic divider box and 100 of each of the most common 5 sizes (500 bearings total). This appears to be about the cheapest price available anywhere for bicycle work.

Jobst also states that Marine grade bearing grease available at auto parts, Home Depot, Marine stores, and monster stores is about the best grease and the best value around. He believes that Phill Woods and other specialty greases are overpriced and offer no advantages. He is however against Lithium greases which resemble the old problematical Campy or French greases. These he says break down, and I guess everyone has noticed that old Campy grease did do exactly that.

Presented to all of those that are not familiar with J. Brandt and might benefit as I did from this information.

Garth Libre in Miami Fl. USA

_______________________________________________

No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date: 7/14/2007 3:36 PM

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:54:20 -0400 From: John Betmanis <johnb@oxford.net> To: CR RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Pic of the Day - Innovations That Changed the Tour de France Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20070722205420.01332260@mailhost.oxford.net> In-Reply-To: <CFAA9F99-DC1C-44AF-BD2B-7B747B9A454F@earthlink.net> References: <001701c7cc64$c9f793b0$ca15fbd1@Newhouse> <0412d08347ad79e6cc221e5f6ae72aa8@comcast.net> <001701c7cc64$c9f793b0$ca15fbd1@Newhouse> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13

At 11:01 AM 22/07/2007 -0700, Chuck Schmidt wrote:
>> http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/aldoross/pd/Leducqetatl.JPG.html
>In the photo it looks like tiny Benoit has been put at a real
>disadvantage with his standard issue "l'Auto" bike as to bike fit.
>Almost looks painful in the photo.

Actually, back in the fifties (don't know about the thirties!) people rode frames a lot larger than in the last 30 years. I ride a 21" frame, but when I was maybe 13 or 14, my first "good" bike was 22" because I hoped to "grow into it" and didn't expect to be able to buy another bike for many years. The term "stand-over height" had not been invented. You never saw more than 2" or 3" of exposed seatpost and when we saw somebody with 12" or more of seatpost showing, we concluded they had grown out of it, but couldn't afford a new one. At least that's how I saw it back then.

John Betmanis Woodstock, Ontario Canada ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:12:29 -0400 From: "Aldo Ross" <aldoross4@siscom.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Pic of the Day - Altig's Broken Fork Message-ID: <001501c7ccc6$8a9ffc40$0814fbd1@Newhouse> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14

Pic of the Day 23 July, 2007

Rudi Altig's Broken Fork

Stage 9, 1962 Tour de France. Green Jersey wearer Rudi Altig was preparing to contest the final sprint when, 12 kilometers from the finish, the right fork blade on his Helyett broke at the crown. Reluctant to stop for a bike change and risk losing contact with the peloton, Altig decided to nurse his damaged bike to the finish. It was a risky decision, but Altig and bike made it to the velodrome in Bordeaux, and the powerful German finished that year's Tour with the Green Jersey. From "Miroir-Sprint" No.839 B, 6th July 1962.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/aldoross/pd/Altig.JPG.html

Click on pic for larger image.

Aldo Ross Middletown, Ohio Etats Unis

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:13:53 -0400 From: Harvey Sachs <hmsachs@verizon.net> To: wfbibb@bellsouth.net, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Suntour bar-end shifters springs Message-ID: <46A400D1.9050305@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu Message: 15

Frank Bibb wrote:

I have a pair of SunTour bar end shifters and the small "z" shaped spring that provides most of the holding power has broken in one, thus rendering it useless. Does anyone: 1. Know where I can get replacement springs (might as well replace both) or 2. Know how to convert them to full friction (or otherwise make them useful) or 3. Have a good one for sale or 4. Have any other advice on this topic

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've just checked, and to my eye the coil spring and the ratchet (which looks to me like a 9 with the tail bent backwards) are the same for the down-tube, bar-end, and thumb shifters. Of course, according to Rivendell, later bar-ends (at least) had finer ratcheting than the earlier ones.

harvey sachs mcLean VA ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:50:47 -0700 From: Mark Fulton <markfulton5@mac.com> To: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Fwd: [CR]Politically Correct Fixed Gearing Message-ID: <E72E34F2-EE96-4975-AACC-FF965EB44A01@mac.com> References: <272489AD-2AD6-440C-960C-816D3DA1D3E5@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=WINDOWS-1252;delsp=yes;format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Precedence: list Message: 16

Begin forwarded message:
> From: Mark Fulton <markfulton5@mac.com>
> Date: July 21, 2007 11:08:57 PM PDT
> To: "Steven M. Johnson" <grisha2@juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Politically Correct Fixed Gearing
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Good movie, thank you, and great fresh California sea bass. Now then,
> I know you only asked about gearing for grass track racing, but I want
> to tell you a little about the racing. It's my all-time favorite
> bicycle racing from a competitor's viewpoint. Sure, racers
> fall a lot, but seldom if ever get hurt. I started grass track club
> racing as a junior, just after World War II, mostly on improvised
> courses set up on the grounds of local VA hospitals in Ohio. The
> really big time races were held on country club golf courses.
> Courses were marked using those baseball- diamond and football line-
> marking things that dispense lime or whatever. The VA hospital races
> were great fun-once we got used to spectators mostly being young men
> in wheel chairs. Family and friends, theirs and ours also
> attended. The competition was less like track racing and more like
> road racing in slow motion. The races were organized much like
> motorcycle flat track races with short maybe five-lap heats where the
> racers went as fast as they could from start to finish. There was lots
> of leaning on each other and banging elbows in the turns followed by
> fierce side-by-side sprints of maybe 50 yards at most.
> The vets especially enjoyed being right next to the action and were
> unquestionably the most supportive fans I've ever experienced. To say
> that rough riding was encouraged would be an understatement.
> The bikes were regular track bikes, mine was a Swiss-made Seiber.
> The only differences were the gearing-which we often had to change
> with the terrain and even the grass texture, length and so on, and the
> tires. We mail ordered special grass-only sew-ups from England I
> think. I don't remember the brand, but the treads were somewhat like
> current cyclocross tires. The first time I saw the current WTB
> Allterrainasaurus tires, I thought "grass track." Actually if I were
> going grass track racing today, I'd probably try a fixed-gear 29er
> with chopped riser bars. But then you should know that later, as a
> professional motorcycle road racer, I was known as "the guy who rides
> all the wrong bikes." (Successfully.)
>
> Mark Fulton=09
> "The Older I Get, The Faster I Was"
> Redwood City
> California

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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 55, Issue 81 *************************************************