RE: [CR]What wire for tying and soldering?

(Example: Production Builders)

From: "Ken Freeman" <freesound@comcast.net>
To: "'Ken Freeman'" <freesound@comcast.net>, "'Andrew Bohlmann'" <encantadas@pcisys.net>, "'Doug Van Cleve'" <dvancleve@gmail.com>, "'Classic Rendezvous'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <954702dd0709141058h2c426358ya9f49a849b2bdc58@mail.gmail.com> <000601c7f6fc$d6c49f30$c61035ce@hal> <000501c7f728$d8b03e90$6401a8c0@maincomputer>
Subject: RE: [CR]What wire for tying and soldering?
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:50:19 -0400
In-Reply-To: <000501c7f728$d8b03e90$6401a8c0@maincomputer>
Thread-Index: Acf2/OUls2WiPhEMShuPUJZWV5siXgAKUTAgAADvw7A=


Sorry for the wrong signoff - I don't think I've done that for a while!!!

Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Ken Freeman Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:42 PM To: 'Andrew Bohlmann'; 'Doug Van Cleve'; 'Classic Rendezvous' Subject: RE: [CR]What wire for tying and soldering?

I can't really speak to this as a wheel builder but I can as an electrical engineer with extensive experience in soldering copper.

If what we want is a copper wire, and for it to be easy to solder, then if the surface of the copper wire is silvery, do not sand that off. It is bus wire (not properly "buss" wire, "Buss" is the family name of a man who sells fuses). It will have a tinning layer, either real tin, a thin layer of solder perhaps bearing a bit of silver, an exotic alloy called Durafuse, or some other layer engineered to readily accept solder when hot. Why is this needed? Because copper oxidizes very quickly when hot and forms a tarnish that becomes very hard to solder, without huge heat like a [HORRORS!!!] SOLDERING GUN. I would not want to have a soldering gun near my finely tensioned thin stainless spokes.

If the AWG 26 wire needs to be sanded because it has PLASTIC on it, then what you have is a roll of MAGNET WIRE or MOTOR WIRE. This stuff is copper, but over the bare copper you find a layer of plastic. There are many plastics used, with a wide variety of heat resistance and hardnesses. Once you go through the trouble of sanding them down you have a bare copper wire with all its attendant problems in solderability (see above).

If the "bee wire" has good mechanical properties in terms of strength and flexibility, and it has a finish or plating that is easy to solder, and its been tested by tradition and experience, then I say use it in favor of copper. First it will be cheaper than copper due to metals market rates today, and steel is just stronger.

I don't know if there's anything to be gained by trying to solder copper to stainless steel, but joining between dissimilar metals is one of the hard problems of engineering, usually requiring large amounts of energy. If what you really want is a wire retainer to keep broken parts from flopping around and getting in the way until they can be repaired, then I say stay with copper and standard tin-lead-silver solders with electronic fluxes. Use fine guage solder to get it to melt and flow quickly.

Ken Freeman

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Bohlmann Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:27 PM To: Doug Van Cleve; Classic Rendezvous Subject: Re: [CR]What wire for tying and soldering?

Doug,

I used to (1978-1983) build wheels (actually, head mechanic and equipment manager) for the old SRC Raleigh Team out of Ames, IA. This was all USCF National Team Members and our 753 frames came directly from the race factory. I also built some wheels for the USCF National Team.

I tied and soldered a number of wheels for various purposes. I have one roll of a thin copper wire with the name, "Anchor" on the roll with "26" (the gauge) and "Soft Copper" also on it. I used sandpaper on the wire to get rid of whatever was on it before I went to work.

Andy Bohlmann
Colorado Springs, CO
http://www.sandcreeksports.com
http://www.tourofcolorado.com


---- Original Message -----
From: Doug Van Cleve
To: Classic Rendezvous
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: [CR]What wire for tying and soldering?



> Howdy folks.
>
> I want to try tying and soldering some wheels and have found that at
> least one authority likes "beekeeper's wire" (which DT also sells for
> this purpose) but everyone else I have read about like tinned copper
> "buss" wire. I am preparing to order my supplies and am torn on which
> wire to get. Opinions?
>
> Doug Van Cleve
> Chandler, AZ USA