[CR]Re: "Another neat..." ...Barale


Example: Production Builders:Peugeot

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:31:31 +0000
From: Simon PJ <simonpj@mac.com>
To: "tom.ward@juno.com" <tom.ward@juno.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <20071113.000121.18530.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Subject: [CR]Re: "Another neat..." ...Barale

Thanks for this, Tom. I certainly would appreciate people¹s opinions about whether this is a 40¹s or 50¹s frame ­ and which gears, wheels, bars/stem, brakes, (mudguards?), seat pin and saddle it ought to be wearing.

I¹m interested by your comments about the rear derailleur (and I too should get hold of a copy of The Dancing Chain).

The pulley on the bottom bracket is single. I¹m afraid I have no informatio n about the history of this particular frame, so it¹s quite possible that the derailleurs are not original.

Wyndham Pulman-Jones Girton, Cambs., UK.

On 13/11/07 05:01, "tom.ward@juno.com" <tom.ward@juno.com> wrote:
> Dear Wyndham,
>
> No one had taken you up yet, so...:
>
> Let me say that your Barale is one very attractive frameset, made of Vitu s
> tubing I note--and the decal is yet another gorgeous detail among many. F eels
> like circa 1953-'55-ish to me, but it's just that, a feeling--what do oth ers
> more knowledgeable say? Can it even be narrowed as much as this? That box y
> Simplex dropout is a tell-tale sign, I believe--and isn't it the match to
   a
> truly sought-after and expensive mid-to-late '50s Simplex derailleur more
> frequently than the pull-chain Tour de France model pictured? I lack the facts
> (read: reference materials or direct experience (born 1967)), but didn't want
> your post to get passed over--as seemed to be happening. Let's hope some
> others will pick it up. Could this frameset be late '40s rather than earl y/
> mid-50s as I speculate? What attribute might narrow it down? At what poin t
> does that aforementioned derailleur hanger appear--with the Simplex T de F
> derailleur, or sometime after (note to self: finally buy copy of THE DANC ING
> CHAIN).
>
> Do we have any trust that we're seeing the original derailleurs (Wyndham is
> there anything we don't know?)?
>
> Is that a double or single pulley brazed on the bottom bracket?
>
> By the way, for those reading recently about the long-cage version of the
> manual front derailleur by Simplex: it is illustrated here on this Barale ;
> follow the link below.
>
> Thanks for reprinting Mr. Lockley's original post regarding Barale.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tom Ward / Manhattan / USA
>
>> >Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:52:38 +0000
>> >From: Simon PJ <simonpj@mac.com
>> <http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inbox&amp;msgNum=0001hVW0 :0017
>> Dp2T00002kOo&amp;block=1&amp;msgNature=all&amp;msgStatus=all&amp;count=1 19492
>> 0882&amp;content=central#> >
>> >To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> <http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inbox&amp;msgNum=0001hVW0 :0017
>> Dp2T00002kOo&amp;block=1&amp;msgNature=all&amp;msgStatus=all&amp;count=1 19492
>> 0882&amp;content=central#> >
>> >Subject: Re: [CR]Another neat bike from 40s/50s on French Ebay
>
>> >I bought the Barale Britania frame that occasioned Norris's very intere sting
>> >post about the Barale mark, below.
>
>> >I have posted some photos of the frame here:
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/simonpj/BaraleBritania/
> http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/simonpj/BaraleBritania/
>
>> >I would be very grateful for any thoughts about the probable date of th e
>> >frame - and thus also about how it should be built up.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Wyndham Pulman-Jones
> Girton, Cambs., UK.
>
> On 24/9/07 00:06, "Norris Lockley" <norris.lockley@talktalk.net
> <http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inbox&amp;msgNum=0001hVW0: 0017D
> p2T00002kOo&amp;block=1&amp;msgNature=all&amp;msgStatus=all&amp;count=119 49208
> 82&amp;content=central#> > wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > The "BARALE" that Steve pointed out to the List is quite an interestin g
> fra
>> > me in that it looks to be of French manufacture, has a very British na me "B
>> > RITANNIA" but claims to have some Italian origins - "BARALE"
>> >
>> > For whatever reason, in France around about the mid century it was rel at
>> > ively fashionable to sell French -made frames with English names..WIND SOR c
>> > omes to mind and BURTON..and with a coat-of-arms if possible.
>> >
>> > This frame with its Simplex ends, Vitus tubing, possibly Prugnat lugs appea
>> > rs to typify French road frames of that era.
>> >
>> > The BARALE connection comes from the family of that name that produced
   t
>> > hree Pro road racing cyclists. Of the three Guiseppe was slightly succ
>> > essful, but Germano was even more so, spending much of his career in t he St
>> > Pelegrino and Carpano squads.
>> >
>> > A couple of years ago I bought a complete BARALE bike from a charity w ar
>> > ehouse, about two hours south of, Paris. At a guess it a mid 60s mach
>> > ine, with a complete Campagnolo spec. The saddle, one of those suede-c overe
>> > d affairs is also badged "BARALE" The Ebay frame is for sale from an o uter
>> > suburb of Paris called Chavenay. Perhaps BARALE had an agent in Paris.
>> >
>> > My BARALE is very much an Italian-made frame...the headbadge carries t he
>> > name "CICLI BARALE"..the address is Ventimiglia. This is a small town just
>> > a handful of kilometres on the other side of the border from Menton at
   the
>> > eastern end of the Riviera.
>> >
>> > It would have been easy for BARALE to have found agents in France, jus t
>> > as the several builders such as Bruno Tardivo, of CBT-Italia fame, bas ed in
>> > Cuneo, again just near the border, have done so successfully in recent
>> years.
>> >
>> > However I think that in the case of this frame the traffic was in the ot
>> > her direction, with Barale importing from France. In the last couple o f yea
>> > rs I have come across quite a few frames built in workshops along that
   end
>> > of the Riviera and they were not all from the URAGO workshops. Just wh o mad
>> > e them I am not sure, but there was at least one quality producer in
>> Marseille
>> >
>> > Perhaps another reason for the very British name is that the Riviera w as
>> > extremely popular with British holiday makers during the immediate pos t-wa
>> > r period, even if the majority of them had chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royc es.
>> >
>> > Norris Lockley..Settle-sur-Riviera, UK
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Norris Lockley