Thanks to all for these data. In green eyeshade and sleeve protectors, I have been dillegently reading the discussion.
Follow-up Questions, please:
(1) Has anyone actually measured the Phil Wood spindles cited as for NR/SR ? Are the Phil-for Campag NR/SR really JIS ?
(2) If Phil-for Campag NR/SR are really JIS, how does this impact the determination of which length Phil to use ?
Thank you.
Richard Cielec
Chicago, Illlinois; U.S.A.
"Say it ain't so, Phil."
> David,
> I'm so glad you went to the trouble of taking those
> measurements. I actually did the same, yesterday, after being
> directed to the Phil Wood Web site. I measured something like
> 30 spindles (that's not an exageration) and my observations are
> in accord with yours - although my calipers are of the old
> fahioned type and not quite as accurate.
> I measured numerous spindles from Campagnolo, one from TA, a
> couple from Sugino Mighty Comp, and finally a couple from
> Nervar. These all had the same taper, with the ends being
> 12.7mm across the flats - with small differences due to
> production tolerances.
> You can probably tell from some of my CR list messages that
> I'm neurotically particular about bottom brackets, chain line,
> and all that sort of stuff. So I've always found the notes on
> the Phil Wood chart very puzzling, especially since some of the
> specification in their listing have implied contradictions with
> those notes.
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
> --- David Snyder <dddd@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > I think we should put out a warning about this.
> >
> > I remember seeing the chart you refer to, years ago!
> >
> > I still remember it because it's misleading. I measured the
> > new and old
> > Campy spindles at the time, and again today. It's very clear
> > that the new
> > and old Campy spindles are nearly same-sized, but are up to
> > two tenths of a
> > millimeter (.2mm) thinner between opposite flats than JIS
> > spindles.
> >
> > The "modern" spindles I measured here are from the "Record"
> > Carbon, 102mm
> > and Veloce(?) 111mm cartridge units.
> >
> > I measure spindles' thickness 3mm from the end.
> > This is an easy measurement to make, because common metric,
> > digital calipers
> > have jaws 3mm thick. One only has to position the spindle end
> > flush with the
> > "other" side of the jaws. This avoids measuring over any
> > radiused edges.
> > You can also lock the caliper's jaws, then transfer that
> > measurement to
> > another spindle so as to compare any actual differences in
> > engagement depth
> > as installed.
> >
> > JIS measures consistently around 12.87mm while Campy and
> > Stronglight
> > spindles measure from 12.67mm to 12.74mm at the location 3mm
> > from the ends.
> > There's always a bit of variance between spindles of
> > different vintage, but
> > it's a relatively slight +/- a few hundredths within this
> > range, so ISO is
> > always distinct from JIS.
> > Note that Stronglight spindles and newer (cartridge) Campy
> > spindles are at
> > the small end of the range as compared to NR-era and C-Record
> > spindles,
> > while Suntour Superbe spindles measure smallest, as small as
> > 12.60mm.
> >
> > The added thickness of JIS makes such spindles effectively
> > ~5-6mm longer
> > when mated to ISO [Stronglight, Campy (& clones)] cranks.
> > That's ~3mm
> > longer on each end.
> >
> > I would hate to buy a high-end bottom bracket and have to
> > deal with
> > unwanted, added "tread" and chainline due to uncompensated
> > JIS dimensions.
> >
> > David Snyder
> > Auburn, CA usa
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Subject: [CR]On Topic Campag Spindles are JIS ?
> >
> >
> > > Ahoy !
> > >
> > > Pursuant to recent query regarding On Topic Campag & Clone
> > Cranks and
> > > Modern BB's, several listers have pointed me toward Phil
> > Wood.
> > >
> > > Crank Axle/Taper Compatibility Table on the Phil site seems
> > to state
> > > that '93 and earlier Campag tapers are JIS or, at least
> > Phil is using
> > > JIS tapers for this application. JIS on Campag doesn't
> > align with the
> > > majority CR opinion I received.
> > >
> > > Have I mis-read the table ? Can anyone offer some
> > explanation, please ?
> > >
> > > Not being critical of Phil, I am just plain perlexed.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Richard Cielec
> > > Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
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