Re: [CR]Vintage Bikes, Vintage Skis, why the difference?

(Example: Framebuilding:Brazing Technique)

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Thomas Adams" <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Vintage Bikes, Vintage Skis, why the difference?
To: dan kasha <dankasha@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <518600.86679.qm@web38903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Dear Dan:

I think it varies from sport to sport, and over time too.

For a long time, golf cherished it's old equipment, and a 1940's Tommy Armour Persimmon driver was highly desired, and commanded a signifcant premium. But in the late 70's, metal woods and titanium heads and graphite shafts yielded enough of a performance advantage that seeing old clubs in use is pretty rare now (although it's said Tiger Woods loves hitting wound balata balls with a persimmon driver).

Likewise fly fishing saw a steep decline in bamboo rods when fiberglass, and then graphite became available. Certainly the new materials were much cheaper (making bamboo rods involves tons of hand work) and the graphite models are usually lighter and can cast farther. But there is a significant segment of fishermen who still cherish the old rods, and even a bunch of retro grouch nuts who claim the old rods work better as far as accuracy and feel are concerned than any new rods. Boy what a bunch of wierdos! I always thought there was a significant parallell between premium hand made frames and bamboo rod makers.

I suppose the difference has to do with the nature of the sport. Golf is ruled by numbers, and if new equipment lets you shoot a lower number, it's hard to justify using the old equipment. But if you fly fish, you're already making a statement that it's not how many fish you catch, but how you catch them. And bamboo fit's beautifully into that aesthetic. Hence a 70 year old Payne or Garrison fly rod is worth thousands of dollars and there are plenty of bamboo rod makers around, but you can't give away old wooden drivers anymore. Look at music. Modern instruments can't play any faster or better than old, and often the old ones sound better. So old istruments command a significant premium. Thus Stradivarius Violins are unobtainable and old Buffet Clarinets are highly prized. What's a 1950's Les Paul worth?

The parallels to bikes is obvious. If you care more about how you ride, rather than just how fast, then the beauty and comfort of steel bikes may have a substantial appeal for you. And I'd say the performance difference between steel frames and modern stuff is smaller than the difference between old and new golf equipment, making it easier to ride steel. If steel was consistently 3-5 mph slower than an aluminum bike, probably fewer people would ride steel. As the difference is probably less than .5 mph, is that significant? I say no, and I suspect the majority of folks on the list agree. The rest of course insist that steel is as fast as modern stuff :-)

Anyway, just some random thoughts on the topic.

Tom Adams, biker, golfer and former piscator, in Manhattan, KS

dan kasha <dankasha@yahoo.com> wrote: I have been meaning to ask this question for a long time. I have a few vintage bikes that I really like riding. I also have many sets of vintage skis and bindings that I also enjoy using. The question to the list is this. What makes bikes so desired, but other sports less so?

An old Marker Simplex releasing toe I think is as interesting as an old campy record derailleur. The feel of an old ski is much like an old bike. Not likely to win the TdF, but can be a hoot to ski and can keep up with the best - it is about the skier as much or more than the ski, just as with the bikes.

But bike stuff really has a following and a desireability. But other sports, beautiful NOS equipment sometimes goes unsold. Why? Is it the age of the sport, is it the large diversity of components? Is it the world wide access to the sport? Oh, yeah, safety. But an old bike has issues too, and those old bindings, some of them, were great.

Other sports that don't get much interest must be out there too.

Anyway, just been wondering, and I hope this is not a stretch of the subject. Dan Kasha Seattle Wa PS Last night was a great night skiing on old Olin Mark IV's with Look 77 bindings and straps.

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