Re: [CR]Fw: Re: Brooks swallow (GULP...)

(Example: Component Manufacturers:Chater-Lea)

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:49:13 -0500
From: "Harry Travis" <travis.harry@gmail.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Fw: Re: Brooks swallow (GULP...)
In-Reply-To: <a06230927c546368297fb@192.168.1.34>
References: <176349.38222.qm@web82208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
cc: travis.harry@gmail.com

Like Prince Charles or not, there seems to be something to his claim that thatch for roofs isn't what it used to be either, Organics can't just be brought to maturity on steroids and be the same except younger. (Thatched roofs in GB are said to have less than half the life they once had.)

But, it is worse than that: Lines which are genetically less inclined to put on salable weight with encouragement of dietary supplement are culled from the gene pool.

So, sometimes "the system" works, sometimes not. There probably exist in the world plenty of hide and leather buyers who know from training and without degrees in chemistry or engineering, just which hides would be most suitable for bicycle saddles, how to tan them for that use, and where they are located -- in places where the animals have first spent years at work.

I'd bet that an organization of cyclists willing to commit to a group-buy of several hundred better saddles could encourage Brooks to build a custom edition of a saddle with such better, more durable leather.

As for the presumption of demand and average use: Really, Jan, can there be any doubt of it? You've submitted your letter to a group whose members have, on average, multiple bikes. So saddles last for years. And maybe even longer, if like our bodies, and leather shoes, they benefit from recovery between periods of stress and wear.

Maybe someone on list knows about harness leather and those other saddles, the ones mounted on horses.

Harry Travis still wearing my Stewart boots from 1967 and Chipewa's from 1975 Washington, DC USA

On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Brooks, on the other hand, has a cantle plate which is cast or forged Ti;
>>
>
> The cantle plate is stamped, just like the steel version. Beyond that, I
> agree that there is a lot of labor in a Brooks saddle. And shaping and
> welding titanium requires more skill than steel. That said, Brooks pricing
> appears to be "we'll take what we can get." How else do you explain that a
> Professional used to cost twice as much as a B17. Same construction, same
> leather, just a few millimeters narrower.
>
> Regardless of price, it would be nice if Brooks could get the leather
> quality back to where it used to be 30 or 50 years ago. The leather started
> to deteriorate about 10 years ago and has been getting worse ever since.
>
> Unfortunately, the current owners of Brooks sees their products as status
> symbols and showpieces, not to be ridden seriously. Among our group of
> randonneurs, more than 50% of brand-new Brooks saddles bought over the last
> two years wore out within 6-9 months (leather sagging) and had to be
> returned/discarded. I like the the classic nameplate, the nice packaging and
> advertising, but it would be nice if it were backed up with traditional
> quality.
>
> Returning a saddle you just spent a few months breaking in is not
> satisfactory. I used to get 30,000+ miles out of a Brooks saddle. In the
> 1940s, professional racers used to move their saddle (and custom handlebars)
> from one bike the next, because they did not wear out quickly.
>
> Today's excuse for the poor leather quality is that the cows are no longer
> what they used to be. However, there is a lot of free-range, hormone-free,
> organic beef sold in Europe, so the leather should be available. I heard
> that Brooks changed leather suppliers to cut costs... which may explain why
> they get such crummy leather.
>
> There are some efforts to make better leather saddles. I am currently
> testing a prototype of the new Berthoud saddles, which is very nice so far.
> However, Brooks is such a hallowed name and their saddles are so pretty,
> that they would be absolute winners if they lasted a bit better. But perhaps
> most of their customers never ride enough to wear out a saddle?
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> Seattle WA 98122
> http://www.bikequarterly.com