Re: [CR] Rene Herse Ligtweight Record Bike

(Example: Events)

From: "Steve Birmingham" <sbirmingham@mindspring.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:58:39 -0500
Thread-Index: AcmJZtk607jlIDKzQDesfCsua79QCA==
Subject: Re: [CR] Rene Herse Ligtweight Record Bike


I can't say I totally agree with either side. I work in a lower end shop, and the stuff that sells tops out around the $700 mark, with a few higher. We also sell a fair number of older bikes.

The new stuff IS better in some ways, but at a very definite cost.

The shifting is better, but at the expense of not having anything rebuildable. And when it fails it's much more expensive. Parts compatibility is also sacrificed.

The braking is also a bit better, but most people can't tell the difference. Almost any brake can stop reliably from 10 mph. (On the very low end, braking is MUCH better)

Fewer flats? Not that I can see. The improved accessibility of the simple to operate modern stuff leads to bikes in the hands of people that won't check the tire pressure. Yes, I've had a person ask incredulously "I have to fill the air in the tires ? I've only owned it 6 months! " the low air pressure leads to.....More flats - lots more flats.

Improved comfort? If we were talking hybrids vs road bikes for the masses, then yes. Road bikes to road bikes, especially comparing lower end new to high end old...No.

And the sports aspect does matter. Ask any longtime Trek dealer what Lance has meant to them over the last decade or so. If they're being honest, they'll admit he's done quite a bit for them. Without the 7 TDF wins they'd be just another brand. And that's why any sports figure is sponsored or paid by a team. It's the value of the marketing of the victories that generates the cash. If it didn't, there wouldn't be so many bikes branded for famous racers. And it's tough to carry that over to more practical bikes because there really aren't many famous commuters/tourers/campers etc.

Steve Birmingham Lowell, Massachusetts USA

Message: 6 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:27:57 -0800 From: Jim Merz <jmerz@schat.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Rene Herse Ligtweight Record Bike

No, I don't want or need abuse.

I don't happen to believe carbon fiber is throw away. If it's done correctly it does not need repair. In any case, the bikes made at the highest level of sport gives benefit to riders of all levels. If you were to look for a modestly price road bike today, say $700 retail, the functional details are at a higher level than the best bikes made in the period up to our cut off point on this list. I know the style points are not as good, but the shifting, braking, lack of flat tires, comfort are all better. I am not trying to be a smart ass about this, but I am just sensitive about making a religious icon out of bikes made in the period of our list here. There is nothing wrong with liking the old mounts at all. It's just that they do not define the end of development.

Sure, marketing happens. It has always happened in the selling of bikes. When I made my Merz bikes I realized that marketing was at least half the effort. But in order for marketing to have meaning the product must have real benefits for the end user. I have always fought to make sure these real benefits (testable, proven features) were in the products I worked on. As for making bikes that people use for practical reasons. The market for this in the USA is not robust and so does not support expensive machines in general. I know this is a noble pursuit, but my personal interest has always been in the very highest level of bicycle technology. In postwar France this was possible with bikes equipped with fenders and lights. Right now this means racing bikes.

Jim Merz
Big Sur CA