Re: [CR] Raleigh Carltons (weights)

Example: Framebuilders:Rene Herse

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:06:24 -0800
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <>
To: <>, <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Raleigh Carltons (weights)

Well it is widely maintained that Schwinn used a heavier gauge 531 than most other builders, and frankly the ride reflects that. Some think it "solid", others a bit "dead". It looks like the International also used a heavier gauge, maybe even the same tubeset as the Paramount, or at least the same maintubes. It would seem the Pro must have used a lighter tubeset. Or at least a Pro Mk V, which I think would be 1975 or later, used a lighter tubeset than a 1971 International. I suppose one really should compare an International and a Pro from the same year, but I'm guessing the Pro would still be lighter. My 1975 Mk IV (or maybe Mk V) certainly isn't so light as to be whippy, but then the fastback stays and steep angles give it a lot of stiffness.

Does anyone have any information on the various gauges of DB 531 used by the well known models of major manufacturers In The Day?

BTW, how does one tell the difference between an Mk IV and and Mk V? Or an Mk III and an Mk IV for that matter? AFAIK the decals only identify it as Professional. The catalogs identify them a Mk whatever, but several different variations appear with the same fork crown and seatstays, and the same general color schemes. There are subtle changes in the decals year to year, but that seems a rather shaky basis for identifying which variation one has. Did the lugs vary enough to identify a model from? And as Larry Osborn pointed out yesterday, trying to match the serial number to the catalog for that year is not at all accurate, as one sees more "1969" Mk I's with 1970 serial numbers than with 1969 serial numbers and it seems one sees more "1970" Mk II's with 1971 SN's than 1970 and so on. Maybe, aside from the distinct white Mk I, all one can say for sure is that one as a Professsional from a certain year as identified by the serial number.


Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, wrote:

> From: <>

\r?\n> Subject: [CR] Raleigh Carltons (weights)

\r?\n> To:

\r?\n> Cc:

\r?\n> Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 11:09 PM

\r?\n> Garth,


\r?\n> Your interesting observation of Raleigh's adv weights

\r?\n> compelled me to take

\r?\n> the following fish-scale measurements of framesets (w/HS,

\r?\n> w/o BB):


\r?\n> 23.5" japRal Superbe 531SL....5.25 lbs

\r?\n> 24.5" RalPro Mk V..................5.50

\r?\n> 24.5" Stella (Columbus)...........6.50

\r?\n> 62 cm Trek 760 (full 531)..........6.50

\r?\n> 23.5" '71 Ral Int'l......................7.00

\r?\n> 61cm '74 Schwinn P13.............7.50


\r?\n> These measurements indicate that the Mk V is relatively

\r?\n> light and that

\r?\n> Raleigh's adv claims are plausible.


\r?\n> Jack Romans

\r?\n> Sacramento, CA