Re: [CR] Very strange but absolutely true! Caminade Redux

(Example: Component Manufacturers:Chater-Lea)

In-Reply-To: <c6ff64470905180356i55eb7d44h3dc6b68307cc256b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c6ff64470905171218g56fa9d0fx1a6754278a9012c0@mail.gmail.com> <a0623091cc63658d5cdb0@67.100.126.241>
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 06:57:58 -0700
To: Edward Albert <ealbert01@gmail.com>
From: "Jan Heine" <heine94@earthlink.net>
Cc: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] Very strange but absolutely true! Caminade Redux


Eddie,

The Caminargent catalogue had some very poor images, which are almost impossible to interpret, and it showed complete bikes, which often are touched up. The focus of the catalogue were the bikes, not the cranks.

The other shows clear photos of components only. It's easier to photograph a crank than a bike, and no touch-up should be needed. Just looking at the photo quality, there is a world of difference between the two.

I have spent a few years studying the matter of pre-war Stronglight cranks, and I have presented my conclusions based on about a dozen bikes I have seen. It appears that Alex M., who has seen even more of these bikes, agrees. However, if you have good evidence beyond one bike that may have had its cranks changed, I am easy to convince otherwise.

Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly 140 Lakeside Ave #C Seattle WA 98122 http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

At 6:56 AM -0400 5/18/09, Edward Albert wrote:
>Jan, I would also like to know why in one correspondence with me in
>my response to my observation that a pre-war British catalog add for
>Caminades showed both pointed and rounded flutes you responded that
>such catalogs were often unreliable because they were "touched up."
>You words:
>
> "Catalogue images are hard to use, because they often have been
>retouched more extensively than you think. It took us a while to
>figure out whether the Delangle tandem in "The Competition Bicycle"
>was the one used for the hour record or not. We finally concluded
>that it was - it had the correct provenance, but some minor details
>seemed to be different, until we realized that they probably were
>retouched in the photos."
>
>Now you seem to take the Stronglight catalog as gospel. I am confused.
>
>Edward Albert
>Chappaqua, New York, U.S.A.
>
>On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Jan Heine
><<mailto:heine94@earthlink.net>heine94@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>At 3:18 PM -0400 5/17/09, Edward Albert wrote:
>
>An absolutely original
>(except saddle) Caminade Caminarget track bike serial #573, Stronglight inch
>pitch track cranks, Caminade bars and stem, and.....Caminade wheels
>(although the rear is in rough shape with several spokes pulled out through
>the rim). Rims have Caminade decals in tact and............the downtube has
>two perfect (although dirty) Caminargent decals. I never thought they even
>existed in the flesh. Additionally, contrary to what some have said, the
>lugs were filled in with Red (oxidized) paint and the cranks had pointed
>flutes -- the bike is pre-war the parts original. I would say that the idea
>that rounded flutes mean pre-war and pointed post is not, in fact, the case.
>
>
>Wow! Congratulations. That seems like a really, really neat bike.
>Much better than the over-polished e-bay machine with its
>cobbled-together parts, many of which were bought separately on
>e-bay in recent months... (A listmember sent me all the various
>auctions that the seller won to "complete" your bike.) In any case,
>the e-bay Caminargent has mis-matched cranks... one with rounded,
>one with pointed flutes.
>
>I agree on the red paint in the headlug windows - the Caminargent in
>"The Competition Bicycle" has that as well, and it doesn't look like
>that one has been messed with a lot.
>
>Regarding the pre-war Stronglight cranks: When you look at
>Stronglight ads from pre-war, they all show the rounded flutes. For
>example, see
>
><http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370190585419&category=56197>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370190585419&category=56197
>
>and click on the bottom left page. In addition, all verifiable
>pre-war Stronglight cranks have the rounded flutes.
>
>Do you have a date for your latest bike? History? It is possible
>that some pre-war Stronglight cranks matched the post-war pattern,
>but it's just as likely that your bike was upgraded after the war,
>or even is a post-war machine... I don't think anybody _knows_ the
>Caminargent serial number pattern.
>
>In any case, I'll be very happy to see the new Caminargent at the
>Cirque. We can discuss the cranks then.
>
>Jan Heine
>Editor
>Bicycle Quarterly
>140 Lakeside Ave #C
>Seattle WA 98122
><http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com>http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com