Noah,
Ah, that would explain it. I read the words as if they were in plain English. In a language I'm not familiar with, these words mean something else. I've never heard the term "Junker" applied to bikes; but I get the drift from your explanation. So we're basically talking about apples and oranges. I did not fully understand the context of the statement/rant.
I'm not into CraigsList; but is it common to rant like that there? What happened to buying and selling stuff?
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
USA
Some context may be helpful, in NYC, perhaps more than elsewhere, "vintage" on CL is a synonym for a junker. And in NYC, perhaps more than elsewhere, these junkers are overpriced. That said, there was a fight on CL regarding how much to pay for a Richard Sachs at one point, but the more typical rage and venting, which this guy's post was part of, is about people flipping $25-50 bikes for big bucks. I think it is pretty clear that the post isn't even considering the idea that an old bike could be a collectible or something special. It is more about all the junker noise.
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 12:37 AM, brianbaylis@juno.com <brianbaylis@juno.com
> wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I don't give a rat's ass what that guy says or thinks. From that point, in
> my world, he ceases to exist.
>
> Besides, it's obvious that he's either clueless or has an ulterior motive.
>
> He'd make a great salesman, though.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> USA
> What negative effect can he have? Anyone who believes this guy is just
> leaving more for us, no?
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR] Interesting NYC Rant ...
> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:24:46 -0700
>
> There is a guy ranting on the NYC craigslist about classic bikes, and
> even though more than half his email is a rant, I he has some good
> points to make.
>
> I'd like to konw, what does the CR list think? Do you consider the
> $100 in consumables for almost any used bike purchase? How do you
> avoid stolen bikes? Compared to cars, we really DON'T have road bike
> auctions from the 70's, etc., why not? We don't have nearly as many
> classic-bike get togethers as there are classic-car get-togethers
> ... will bikes ever sell for an inflation-adjusted premium vs. their
> original prices (note: Inflation is 7x since about 1972), like Ford
> Mustangs?
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA
>
> ===============================
>
> FrOm: sale-6atfn-1311486078@craigslist.org
> Subject: CHEAP USED OLD VINTAGE RARE CLASSIC BIKE - $1
> X-Url: http://tinyurl.com/
>
> I don't understand buyers on Craigslist. Why are you willing to pay
> 125.00 or even 100.00 for an old bike? THEY ARE WORTH THE MOST $50.00
> IN GREAT CONDITION. LESS IF THEY SHOW SIGNS OF FADING AND RUST. Would
> you pay the same amount for a 10 year old car? (the same price when it
> was new 10 years ago new) Who declared it to be VINTAGE? The guy
> selling it to you? If its such a great bike, why does he have so many
> of them? and why is he willing to sell it to you? If it were such a
> desireable bike why is he/she not asking for $5000.00? A 1965 FORD
> MUSTANG new in 1965 was under 2000.00. Now for a good condition 1965
> MUSTANG is like 20,000.00. I dont think there a classified Vintage or
> Classic Bike certification. (for automobiles there is. Insurance even
> classifies it that way)? Have you ever seen anywhere including the
> ANTIQUE ROAD SHOW, any bikes being appraised? or an auction on Vintage
> or classic road bikes? Bicycles do not increase in value as the get
> older. You will never see any auction on bikes unless its an ESTATE
> AUCTION, meaning everything is on auction. Bikes today that you buy
> brand new in Wal-Mart, Kmart, Target, Sears, JCPenny's And Department
> store under 100.00 are far more safer, new shifting technology, state
> of the art braking systems, far more durable and lighter weight
> frames, with safer wheels and tires than any VINTAGE/CLASSIC bike. For
> the price you will spend tuning, adjusting this old bike at an LBS you
> could have bought one new with a 90 day "just don't like it"
> warranty. The bike is Vintage/Classic (old) means you cant get parts
> and if you do its going to cost you half of what a new bike is plus
> labor. A lot of Local department stores have brand new cruisers,
> commuters, Beach, Road, and His and Hers bikes for 175.00 or
> LESS!!!. BRAND NEW with Warranty!!! Is it not worth the $8.00 to
> $10.00 to cross the bridge to NJ or Brooklyn or SI to buy a brand new
> bike for well under 200.00? Isn't Safety an issue to you? Today's
> 89.99 bike is safer, lighter and far better gearing and braking
> technology, trust me.
>
> So lets break it down a little. Lets take a bike that's 10 maybe 20
> years old. Or even 15 years old.
>
> Two new tires (Cheapest tires but new) $15.00 X 2 = $30.00
> Two new Tubes (Cheapest tubes but new) $5.00 X 2 = $10.00
> One new chain (Cheapest chain but new) 10.00 10.00
> Set of new cables (Cheapest but new) 30.00 30.00
> Set of brake pads (cheapest but new) $10.00 X 2 20.00
> New Parts Total $100.00
>
> So he/she is selling you the bike for 150.00. Think. Think again. So
> most likely he/she didn't change any of the 10, 15, 20 year old parts
> (important safety parts). If he did would he sell it to you for
> $150.00? and if he did, how did he get this bike? After 10-20 years
> these parts are worn and will not perform correctly. They
> won't. Chains stretch after 2-5 years, cables stretch after 2 years,
> tubes are not dependable any time. Tires are weakened after 2 years
> even with treads. Brake pads get hard after a year, even though it
> looks good. If the rubber is hard, you will not have braking
> power. The prices I have listed would be of the lowest quality parts
> you can buy. But they will work for everyday riding. (of course there
> is far more superior quality available). So basically you will either
> eventually replace the parts and spend the money, which brings you
> right back to a price of a better new bike. Think. A clean looking
> part, does not mean it's a dependable part. Think. Would you spend
> that much to fix an old bike and than sell it for 150.00? And these
> guys have a lot of these old vintage classic bikes. Lol.
>
> Most people who post on here, copy and paste the parts from a
> department store web page that this "USED" bike has as if its some
> great parts, (looks pretty impressive if you dont know too much about
> bikes) if you Google the bike you will see ALL department store bikes
> in the store web page list there parts. CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE BIKES. Just
> because they list it does not mean they are good parts. ALL brand name
> manufactures have their low end and high end parts.
>
> Then you'll see that the price the seller is looking for is the same
> as if it was brand new in a store or MORE!!!. okay, maybe 5-10 dollars
> less, but the bike is 5-10 year old. (Hint: If you cant find it on any
> stores web page, it's most likely very old. Probably over 5 years
> old). Most likely they are just looking to get there money back,
> because the bike is junk, and they want to buy a better one, so sell
> YOU that great bike they have to get a better one, and not lose any
> money for riding it. If you email them for the make and model and they
> give you an excuse why they don't know, be certain its an old piece of
> garbage. Don't you know the make and model of your great car you
> drive? I do.
>
> All those reviews you read on the internet on new bikes are
> ridiculous. All new bikes in a Dept store are put together by a min
> wage HS kid. After you buy the bike, take it to a LBS or it's easy to
> do it yourself and have everything adjusted properly. Do you really
> think that HS kid cares? Dept stores are not in the BIKE BUSINESS,
> they are in the Selling of bikes business, there's a difference. After
> you tune this dept store new bike, you'll be amazed what it can
> do. HINT: dual suspension Mountain bikes look cool, but are not
> designed for commuting or riding a long time. They are designed for DH
> (down hill only) You will get tired of riding normally very quickly.
>
> My advice to people new to bicycling or resuming cycling after several
> years is to buy a new bicycle, for many reasons. New bikes come with
> full warranty protection, in the unlikely event of problems. Newer
> bikes are less prone to mechanical failures, and most bike shops offer
> a 90-day "break-in" period where they'll make minor adjustments. You
> can find just the right combination of color, fit, style, and options
> buying new, where you have less choice buying a used bike. Bike
> technology has also improved markedly in recent years, especially
> shifting, braking, and frame materials -- newer bikes simply work
> better.
>
> One of the biggest problems with buying a used bike is that you don't
> necessarily know if the bike was stolen. The owner of a local bike
> shop told this reporter that he found his stolen bike recently when
> someone rode by on it. The rider bought it for a price that "was too
> good to be true." If possible, try and buy a used bike from a
> reputable source, such as a shop or other legitimate seller. And if
> the bike has a serial number (usually located on a label on the bike),
> see if you can look that number up before concluding the purchase. A
> good place to look is the Stolen Bicycle Registry. Keep in mind that
> some people remove these stickers to give their bike a cleaner
> look. So if a bike doesn't have a serial number, it doesn't
> automatically mean it's stolen.
>
> Many bike components can be easily replaced. However, it's important
> to see how worn the tires, chain, cables, gears, and brakes actually
> are. Are there any significant dents or cracks in the frame? Do the
> brakes stop quickly and smoothly? Do the tires go flat seconds after
> adding air? If possible, lift the bike and turn the crank
> gently. Next, turn the crank backward. Does it run smoothly? Does the
> chain remain on the chain rings? Likewise, when spinning the wheels,
> make sure they don't move side-to-side or up and down.
>
> Some items, like cables and brake pads, are affordable to replace. But
> if the gears are worn, the chain appears stretched or rusty, or the
> wheels have a wobble when they spin, those parts are worn out and
> replacements can be expensive. A worn out bike isn't a bargain. Most
> used bike may have hair line cracks in the frame, which may fail
> suddenly and may kill you. Imagine kissing the handle bar full force
> with your chin when the frame snaps. If you survive that it will cost
> you more to fix that its worth. Some used bikes frames are slightly
> bent from slamming into curbs or even a car. You wont see the bend,
> but you'll feel it later.
>
> The most important factor to consider when buying a bike isn't price,
> but comfort. If you purchase a quality bicycle and store it indoors,
> maintain it regularly, and replace parts as they wear out, your new
> bike could easily last for 10-20 years. Think of buying a bike as
> making a "lifetime" investment. It's far better to get a bike that
> fits well and can offer an enjoyable ride for decades, than one that
> happens to be cheap at the moment. Today's bargain can become
> tomorrow's aggravation. It's also easier and less expensive to buy
> exactly what you want and enjoy it, than to buy something less
> suitable and try to "adapt" it to your needs (changing tires,
> components, saddles, etc.)
>
> Cost isn't the most important factor when buying a bike. Bikes are
> inexpensive, period. You can usually find a great bike for less than
> the cost of making just one car payment.
>
> Cranks: Watch out for cotter-pin cranks! Its an older system where the
> crank is held on by a bolt running through the crank arm like so:
>
> These are really hard to work on because nobody makes a tool to fix
> them anymore! They are really heavy, prone to problems and replacement
> parts are almost impossible to find. A bike with cottered cranks is
> never worth it! I don�t know how to stress that enough.
>
> Peugeot- They made tons and tons of inexpensive bikes in the 70's with
> cottered cranks, steel wheels, and plastic simplex derailleur's all of
> which will break and be impossible to replace. The parts for Peugeots
> are sized to a specific French-only system, meaning no modern part
> will be compatible with the Peugeot. In the days before the metric
> system countries had their own measurements and much like the US has
> insisted on using the English System long beyond its usefulness, (the
> U.S. Liberia and Myanmar are the only countries in the world that
> don't use the metric system) Peugeot held on to the French system
> longer than just about anyone. Now I know lots of people like Peugeot
> for sentimental or aesthetic reasons, but as a general rule of thumb
> their parts break easily and there are no available
> replacements. Generally speaking, it is a good idea to avoid any and
> all old French bicycles Some Viscount frames were built to be
> relatively light, and often these bikes came with nice
> components. Unfortunately, the frames were matched with a fork that
> was glued and pinned aluminum. These forks will fail randomly and
> catastrophically. At some point, they will just break in two. Lastly,
> the bottom brackets were also a weird press in cartridge bearing
> that's hard to deal with, so its best to just stay away.
>
> Wheels and Drive train: Wheels are about the priciest thing on the
> frame. First rule is to avoid steel rims. Steel is great for frames
> but terrible for wheels. Steel wheels are heavy, get big dents easily,
> and are hard to true. Steel rims are shinier than aluminum but if you
> aren't sure, bring a magnet. Magnets will stick to steel but not
> aluminum.
>
> There are a couple other things to watch out for with wheels; one is
> the Helicomatic hub by Maillard.
>
> They come on lots of old French bikes and some old Treks, but may have
> been installed on any bike after market. They take a special gear
> cluster long ago obsolete. That�s a big deal because the teeth on
> your gear cluster wear out with your chain. On an inexpensive to mid
> price bike a chain and gear cluster will wear out in a year to year
> and a half of everyday riding. If you were riding on a Helicomatic, at
> that point you would have to buy a new wheel, new chain, new gear
> cluster, and possibly new cranks and that can run as much as you paid
> for the bike in the first place! Same thing goes for Shimano Uniglide
> hubs. They came in five six and seven speeds and where an early
> cassette effort that is also no longer available. On these hubs the
> last cog screws on top, instead of having a lockring.
>
> If you buyers have any questions about bikes, feel free to contact me,
> I am an avid rider and hate seeing you all get ripped off.
>
>
>
>
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