Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question

(Example: Production Builders)

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:56:16 -0800
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: <joeb-z@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <1776237026.13694081260455970995.JavaMail.root@sz0107a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question


Yeah, Japanese frames are really underrated. Their quality control was much better than English Raleighs, not that that was difficult. And the Japanese Schwinns, including World Voyageur and Volare are cleaner than US-made Schwinns at similar price points. The rumor has long been that Schwinn killed the World Voyageur (or actually renamed it and downgraded the components) after only one year because it was a threat to touring Paramount sales. They may not have had as many full custom builders as Italy, but Japan has had a few with 3Rensho, Zunow, Toei, Cherubim, Nagasawa and others. Maybe the only valid criticism one might make of Japanese frames is that they followed design patterns previously established by European builders and maybe weren't all that innovative in terms of major design elements. But Raleigh quality certainly did not suffer from being made in Japan.

BTW, I think it was mentioned that the Campetition GS that started this thread is black. Weren't the blacks one made in the first couple of years, with the color later changing to silver?

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA


--- On Thu, 12/10/09, joeb-z@comcast.net wrote:


> From: joeb-z@comcast.net <joeb-z@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
> To: "George Allen" <jgallen@lexairinc.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 8:39 AM
>
>
> The Japanese ones are quite different. I sold on to Curtis
> and Joel at Via several years ago and I believe the made in
> Japan was part of the headbadge. These bikes had nothing to
> apologize for compared to the UK frames.
>
>
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
>
> Whitneyville, CT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Allen" <jgallen@lexairinc.com>
>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:01:25 AM GMT -05:00
> US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
>
> I have a 1979 and a 1980 and I'm pretty sure they were made
> in England.
> I always thought the Suntour drop-outs were the dead
> give-away for a
> Japanese made frame.
>
> George Allen
> Lexington, KY
>
>
>
>
>
> Putman, Clyde wrote:
>
> >The adhesive on the "Made in Japan" stickers was
> clearly defective.
> >They consistantly fell off during assembly "back in the
> day"
> >
> >Frankly the finish work on the Japanese bikes was often
> a LOT better than the English built, so really nothing to be
> ashamed of.
> >
> >Cheers on a cold evening in
> >Dallas, TX, USA, earth
> >Clyde "the devil is in the decals" Putman
> >
> >
> >________________________________________
> >From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]
> On Behalf Of marcus.e.helman@gm.com
> [marcus.e.helman@gm.com]
>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:49 PM
> >To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> >Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
> >
> >I am not trying to be a smart-aleck, but I would expect
> that a Japanese
> >Raleigh would have a "Made in Japan" sticker.  My 1981
> Raleigh Gran Sport
> >(gas pipe tubing, far different from a Grand Sport) has
> one.  Also the
> >heron headbadge only says "The Raleigh"  It does not
> say Nottingham or
> >England.
> >
> >Not a Raleigh expert by any means,
> >Marcus Helman
> >Detroit, MI
> >
> >Message: 11
> >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:25:37 +0000
> >From: damien roohr <droohr@comcast.net>
>
> >Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
> >To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> >Message-ID:
> >
> ><88360608.3918461260401137976.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>
> >
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Thanks everyone -
> >Sounds like there is no sure way of identifying a
> Japanese made Raleigh
> >comp gs. So it goes. .. the bike i will view tomorrow
> is assessed by the
> >owner - who has been in the bike business as a shop
> owner and back then a
> >Raleigh-dealer - since 1971 -- believes the bike is a
> Nottingham product.
> >However, and at the same time, he freely admits that
> for some many years
> >Raleigh did what it had to do to ship a bike -
> components being traded
> >freely between models, etc. -
> >
> >The bike says Raleigh Comp GS - it's black, has Campy
> stuff and has a 531
> >label - I might just go for it! If, in the end, it does
> not ride like a
> >wishy-washy, shock-absorbing (hey, i am a former c-dale
> pilot)
> >double-butted 531 frame - then at least i got some cool
> campy bits!-
> >
> >thanks everyone - i'll keep you possted!!
> >
> >Damien
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Anthony Taylor" <ajft1942@yahoo.com>
>
> >To: "Andrew R Stewart" <onetenth@earthlink.net>,
> "damien roohr"
> ><droohr@comcast.net>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:09:45 PM GMT -05:00
> US/Canada Eastern
> >Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Not too long ago, I bought a Raleigh frame (ebay),
> thinking it was a
> >Competition model. It has Nervex lugs, the classic
> Raleigh head badge, the
> >classic '70's elegant long rake fork, half chrome front
> and back, but it
> >has Suntour drop-outs. I cannot find the frame number
> pattern on any of
> >the sites dating frames by the number.
> >
> >The seller listed it as a 56 cm, but it is a 58 - too
> big. It is still a
> >very nice frame even if a bit of a mystery. I would
> appreciate any feed
> >back.
> >
> >Cheers from "sunny" 8'' + Manchester NH
> >
> >Tony Taylor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net>
>
> >To: damien roohr <droohr@comcast.net>;
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> >Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 11:44:03 AM
> >Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
> >
> >Damien- For any one who is familiar with the English
> Raleigh bikes
> >spotting a Japanese version is easy. They look kind of
> like the English
> >ones but the details are slightly off. Clumsier lug
> lining but with more
> >consistent frame paint being the start of the visuals
> differences. My
> >memory is too dim to recall if the drop outs were
> different but I think
> >so. Also dim is the change from Euro but non Campy
> components, to Campy GS
> >(with the three arm crank) then to the Campy GS with
> the 5 arm crank. I
> >sure others will be more detailed in the comparison.
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "damien roohr" <
> droohr@comcast.net
> >
> >To: < classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:49 AM
> >Subject: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of
> manufacture question
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Hi everyone,
> >>By way of introduction I have been racing bicycles
> for about 25 years in
> >>    
> >>
> >New England, not so much the past 5 years, and as for
> results, solidly
> >mediocre. I cut my riding and racing teeth on a 1974
> Raleigh Super Course
> >Mk II (green and white) which I am still kicking myself
> for getting rid of
> >- although I have the Normandy hubs and Huret Jubilee
> DRs on my desk as
> >conversation pieces). Of late have been developing a
> keen interest in
> >acquiring and refurbishing a vintage ride. Here is my
> question:
> >  
> >
> >>Was the Raleigh Competition GS ever manufactured in
> Japan? I am pretty
> >>    
> >>
> >certain through the 1970s they were made only in
> England - so I am
> >concerned with 1980, 81, 82. I do not have a serial
> number to reference at
> >this time - so if some were made in Japan and some not,
> does anyone know
> >how one could tell the difference?
> >  
> >
> >>I am considering acquiring a 1981 with full GS
> components - and it says
> >>    
> >>
> >"Carlton" on the seat tube. But I really want to invest
> in an England-made
> >frame for this project. Thanks in advance - you guys
> (meaning everyone)
> >are great!
> >  
> >
> >>Damien Roohr
> >>Canton CT
> >>1999 Klein Quantum Pro
> >>1982 Schwinn Traveler fixie conversion
> >>    
> >>
> >
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