[CR] English/Japanese Raleigh Competitions

(Example: Framebuilders:Pino Morroni)

From: "JEROME JUDITH IDE" <j-eide@msn.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:19:05 -0600
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:19:06 -0600
Subject: [CR] English/Japanese Raleigh Competitions


Date: Thur, 10 Dec2009 From: j-eide@msn.com<mailto:j-eide@msn.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question To: George Allen jgallen@lexairinc.com<mailto:jgallen@lexairinc.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

The 1974 thru 1981 English Raleigh Competition serial numbers would start with a "W" and be followed by the year( 4 would be 1974, 0 would be 1980). The Japanese serial number would start with an "N" followed by the year. The Carlton plant closed in 1980 or 1981. Raleigh made three different catalogs that looked the same and said copyright 1980, but the only changes made were in the specs not the pictures. For the competion they went to the 5 arm GS crank and the brakes were changed to Grand Compe (were Weimman 605). I have a Japanese 1982 Competition and a 1982 Superbe.

Jerry Eide Moorhead, Mn

Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:39:30 +0000 From: <joeb-z@comcast.net<mailto:joeb-z@comcast.net>> Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question To: George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com<mailto:jgallen@lexairinc.com>> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <1776237026.13694081260455970995.JavaMail.root@sz0107a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net<mailto:1776237026.13694081260455970995.JavaMail.root@sz0107a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>>

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The Japanese ones are quite different. I sold on to Curtis and Joel at Via several years ago and I believe the made in Japan was part of the headbadge. These bikes had nothing to apologize for compared to the UK frames.

Joe Bender-Zanoni

Whitneyville, CT


----- Original Message -----
From: George Allen
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:01:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question


I have a 1979 and a 1980 and I'm pretty sure they were made in England. I always thought the Suntour drop-outs were the dead give-away for a Japanese made frame.

George Allen Lexington, KY

Putman, Clyde wrote:
>The adhesive on the "Made in Japan" stickers was clearly defective.
>They consistantly fell off during assembly "back in the day"
>
>Frankly the finish work on the Japanese bikes was often a LOT better than the English built, so really nothing to be ashamed of.
>
>Cheers on a cold evening in
>Dallas, TX, USA, earth
>Clyde "the devil is in the decals" Putman
>
>
>________________________________________
>From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org> [classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of marcus.e.helman@gm.com<mailto:marcus.e.helman@gm.com> [marcus.e.helman@gm.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:49 PM
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
>
>I am not trying to be a smart-aleck, but I would expect that a Japanese
>Raleigh would have a "Made in Japan" sticker. ?My 1981 Raleigh Gran Sport
>(gas pipe tubing, far different from a Grand Sport) has one. ?Also the
>heron headbadge only says "The Raleigh" ?It does not say Nottingham or
>England.
>
>Not a Raleigh expert by any means,
>Marcus Helman
>Detroit, MI
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:25:37 +0000
>From: damien roohr <droohr@comcast.net<mailto:droohr@comcast.net>>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>>
>Message-ID:
>
><88360608.3918461260401137976.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net<mailto:88360608.3918461260401137976.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>Thanks everyone -
>Sounds like there is no sure way of identifying a Japanese made Raleigh
>comp gs. So it goes. .. the bike i will view tomorrow is assessed by the
>owner - who has been in the bike business as a shop owner and back then a
>Raleigh-dealer - since 1971 -- believes the bike is a Nottingham product.
>However, and at the same time, he freely admits that for some many years
>Raleigh did what it had to do to ship a bike - components being traded
>freely between models, etc. -
>
>The bike says Raleigh Comp GS - it's black, has Campy stuff and has a 531
>label - I might just go for it! If, in the end, it does not ride like a
>wishy-washy, shock-absorbing (hey, i am a former c-dale pilot)
>double-butted 531 frame - then at least i got some cool campy bits!-
>
>thanks everyone - i'll keep you possted!!
>
>Damien
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Anthony Taylor" <ajft1942@yahoo.com<mailto:ajft1942@yahoo.com>>
>To: "Andrew R Stewart" <onetenth@earthlink.net<mailto:onetenth@earthlink.net>>, "damien roohr"
><droohr@comcast.net<mailto:droohr@comcast.net>>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:09:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
>
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Not too long ago, I bought a Raleigh frame (ebay), thinking it was a
>Competition model. It has Nervex lugs, the classic Raleigh head badge, the
>classic '70's elegant long rake fork, half chrome front and back, but it
>has Suntour drop-outs. I cannot find the frame number pattern on any of
>the sites dating frames by the number.
>
>The seller listed it as a 56 cm, but it is a 58 - too big. It is still a
>very nice frame even if a bit of a mystery. I would appreciate any feed
>back.
>
>Cheers from "sunny" 8'' + Manchester NH
>
>Tony Taylor
>
>
>
>
>From: Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net<mailto:onetenth@earthlink.net>>
>To: damien roohr <droohr@comcast.net<mailto:droohr@comcast.net>>; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 11:44:03 AM
>Subject: Re: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
>
>Damien- For any one who is familiar with the English Raleigh bikes
>spotting a Japanese version is easy. They look kind of like the English
>ones but the details are slightly off. Clumsier lug lining but with more
>consistent frame paint being the start of the visuals differences. My
>memory is too dim to recall if the drop outs were different but I think
>so. Also dim is the change from Euro but non Campy components, to Campy GS
>(with the three arm crank) then to the Campy GS with the 5 arm crank. I
>sure others will be more detailed in the comparison.
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "damien roohr" < droohr@comcast.net<mailto:droohr@comcast.net> >
>To: < classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> >
>Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:49 AM
>Subject: [CR] Intro & comp GS country of manufacture question
>
>
> ?
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>By way of introduction I have been racing bicycles for about 25 years in
>> ? ?
>>
>New England, not so much the past 5 years, and as for results, solidly
>mediocre. I cut my riding and racing teeth on a 1974 Raleigh Super Course
>Mk II (green and white) which I am still kicking myself for getting rid of
>- although I have the Normandy hubs and Huret Jubilee DRs on my desk as
>conversation pieces). Of late have been developing a keen interest in
>acquiring and refurbishing a vintage ride. Here is my question:
> ?
>
>>Was the Raleigh Competition GS ever manufactured in Japan? I am pretty
>> ? ?
>>
>certain through the 1970s they were made only in England - so I am
>concerned with 1980, 81, 82. I do not have a serial number to reference at
>this time - so if some were made in Japan and some not, does anyone know
>how one could tell the difference?
> ?
>
>>I am considering acquiring a 1981 with full GS components - and it says
>> ? ?
>>
>"Carlton" on the seat tube. But I really want to invest in an England-made
>frame for this project. Thanks in advance - you guys (meaning everyone)
>are great!
> ?
>
>>Damien Roohr
>>Canton CT
>>1999 Klein Quantum Pro
>>1982 Schwinn Traveler fixie conversion
>> ? ?