Dear List,
Jim asked me to send his reply to Paul's post for him.
Greg Reiche CyclArt Vista, CA USA
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Cunningham Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:29 PM To: Greg Reiche Subject: RE: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
As always, there are two sides to each story. Putting aside the issue of whether Paul's original post is appropriate for the CR list, much less the best way to resolve his problem, we feel it's in everyone's interest to share our side, to explain the process and values by which we make our recommendations.
As with all customers in the preliminary stages of the process, Paul has sent us no money, and has received our best advice. We have never sent Paul an estimate for a "cheap powdercoat." The estimate we sent was for a top tube dent repair and complete refinish with accurate decals. The frame would look like new. We understand and respect that he wants the original finish preserved, because it's really not that bad and the blemishes all speak to his history with the bike, so we offered to clean, wax and preserve his original finish. What we declined to do was a half-assed job that would look all wrong. We can do better.
We do many touch-ups or "Partials" at CyclArt. Our objective is to make the damaged area appear that it was never damaged. If, in our professional opinion, we can't do a seamless undetectable repair, we won't do it. If someone just wants to cover the damaged area to protect it, and make it less conspicuous, we coach them on how to do it themselves.
When I first spoke to Paul about a dent repair and touch-up I asked, as I always do, if the paint outside the damaged areas was unblemished. We do not recommend touch-ups on frames with many little blemishes because the repaired area would be conspicuous in its lack of blemishes, and it is hard to decide where to stop the repair. A good candidate for a partial has an almost blemish-free finish with a few areas that need attention. A poor candidate is a frame with many small blemishes, because the time involved in matching and blending-in each damaged area often exceeds the time it takes to do a complete refinish.
When the frame arrived, the top tube dent was as expected, no real problem there. But we expected a couple of other bad spots and an otherwise unblemished frame. What we received is a frame with tiny nicks amd scratches everywhere. There is not a single square inch on the frame or fork anywhere that is not blemished. Still, all the blemishes are minor, in our opinion. Since the frame shows its "experience," we saw really no reason to paint it unless one wants it returned to new condition.
The problem in this case is that Paul asked us to repair the top tube, the right chainstay, an area under the front derailleur and bottom bracket, and the front and rear dropout areas. If we did as requested, Paul's frame would have obvious touch-ups because these are the areas that typically have more wear, but would be appear new, while the rest of the frame would show its age. Furthermore, since there are blemishes on every square centimeter of the fork and stays, we could not find a good place to stop the touch-up.
When the frame first arrived, we expressed these concerns to Paul, and he stressed (as he has in his post) the low value of the frame, saying "it does not have to be perfect." It's not a question of perfection though; doing what he asks makes the frame look worse than doing nothing at all.
Our advice was that we should clean, wax and preserve his existing finish. After all, the dent is small and not structural. With all the concern about the history of the frame, it seems to be part of that history. Alternatively, we can do a complete and accurate restoration, for less that Paul expected. We gave him an estimate for the latter. The only other approach would be to do a seamless touch-up and "Cycltique" of the touched-up areas so they are not conspicuous, but this is more time-consuming and expensive than the complete refinish and would not look much different from what he has now except for the dent repair.
We DO understand passion and history and owner's attachment to a bicycle frame. That is why we do what we do! We simply declined to do a job would likely result in dissatisfaction for both our craftspeople and the owner.
Jim Cunningham CyclArt, Inc. 2590 Pioneer Avenue Suite A Vista, CA 92081-8427
760-599-1016
http://www.CyclArt.com (mapped)
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:15 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
I sent my 1985 Bianchi Veloce to Cyclart for repair. It's a middle of the road model that doesn't have much monetary value, but it was my first real bike and I won a number of races with it when I was a kid; so it has a great deal of sentimental value. The top tube has a minor dent from a collision I had with a car 25 years ago that I've wanted to have repaired ever since. A number of people recommended Cyclart so I emailed Jim Cunningham.
I told him what I wanted done, remove the dent, keep the existing paint, and touch up some of the larger eyesores. He said that was a pretty basic repair and suggested I send it to him for an estimate. When I eventually got the estimate, it was for a dent repair and a cheap powder coat. I called Jim and explained to him how keeping the original paint was very important to me, that I didn't mind if it didn't come out perfect.
You could tell from the conversation he didn't want to be bothered, going on about how his painters/artists wouldn't find much motivation from such a job, that there was little satisfaction or gratification to be had from such a project. After I told him how much the bike meant to me, he appeared to understand and accepted to give me a quote for the work requested. Several few weeks later, Jim obviously changed his mind; I got a mail from Susan with the original estimate (dent removal plus re-finish).
I contacted Cyclart once again asking for a quote for a complete CycleTique treatment for the frame realizing it would be costly. Apparently, Cyclart has no interest in doing the work and offered to send me back the frame as is.
Were my expectations too high? I was willing to spend considerably more than what the bike was worth for a simple frame repair and explained it to them long before I ever sent them the frame. I wrongly assumed Cyclart would understand the passion emotion and history that an owner can have with a particular bike; what a disappointment.
Could someone recommend a shop that would do such a repair?
Paul Ozzello
Montreal Canada