There has been some recent correspondence about Harry Butler of the Bradford/Leeds area in England, and I thought it might be useful if I offered some observations, all of which I can substantiate, that might help people to decide whether they want to do business with him. He has put multiple ads in Cycling Weekly advertising his collection for sale (selling up due to old age etc). What he doesn't say (whether to throw the buyer or taxman off the scent?) is that he is a dealer who replenishes his "collection" through his contacts and cycle jumbles. I am not aware of any totally bogus Hetchins framesets that he has offered, but I am aware of more mundane Hetchins frames reworked to resemble Magnum Opus frames and offered at substantially more than a fake is worth. Arguably, their Hetchins origin entitles them to carry the Hetchins name. He does obtain some good and authentic bikes and parts, some hard-to-find, which he offers at inflated prices. You will find much better deals if you are prepared to wait and look. He has found it advantageous to buy complete bikes and sell them as parts. He has concealed defects in parts he sold but, when confronted, agreed to take them back for the price paid. (Moral -- always complain if you don't think you are getting what you paid for) -- a bit inconvenient if you live on another continent though.
Hugh Thornton ..........................................
Dale Brown wrote:
I have just written to new guy on the block, Cliv, that we do not want to slam people on this list..
Harry Butler is older (in his 80s) old bike collector/seller who is frequently referred to by some UK guys and a few USA folk as being a bit sneaky in his dealings with the bikes and parts he sells. Because he, nor friends and acquaintances are available to put up any defense, I told Cliv is was not cool to zing Mr. Butler.
I have no idea if Butler is on the up and up, but I personally bought a set of 1960s Magnum Opus lugs maybe two-three years ago from him and they were exactly that. I think it is entirely possible that he sold parts to people who then made bikes of them... Whether someone along the line added a set of Hetchins decals to one of these Hetchins lugged frames is possible but no one has offered any proof of that. I saw at Brian Baylis' shop a bike made with these lugs (He didn't make it, he was trying to fix it!) and it was a mess, very poorly built.. but it still was not being presented as a "Hetchins."
I also question whether there is some vast conspiracy to make Hetchins fakes at all. The prices they sell for versus the trouble one would have to go to is not much incentive! Just as there are Windsors with Cinelli decals and who knows what else, I don't think it is a big deal. I would love to hear first person factual reports to the contrary and not "I heard of a guy who knew a guy who had a fake Hetchins."
Just my two centavos,
Dale Brown