Seems to me there are 2 problems with the safety or suicide brake levers that have nothing to do with fashion or image:
1) In an emergency or panic stop, they often don't work very well. But you don't realize it until it's too late when the levers run out of travel, hit the bars & you hit what is in front of you.
2) When you are riding with a group, it's often body language that lets you know what others are doing - like reaching for brake levers when slowing down. Many people I see using suicide levers ride on top of the bars, brake with suicide levers & there's no body movement to indicate that they are braking. They need brake lights.
I have seen several accidents over the years caused by both problems. Maybe it's not a big deal where it is flat or if you are riding by yourself, but watch those car doors.
Mike Self
Cincinnati, OH
<BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com>; "'Jerry Moos'" <moos@penn.com> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:27 PM Subject: [CR]Re: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn Approved"plus commerc ial
> I started this thread and still don't believe that what you say is valid,
> Dave. I don't think they had anything at all to do with fashion. And they
> certainly have as much function as shocks, front and rear, on the vast
> majority of mountain bikes on the road (I say road because most of them,
> like SUV's, never make it offroad. And we're talking bikes that are way
> above $300 entry level.
>
> I believe stem shifters and, what you call "suicide" brake levers, were
> developed for casual, upright riders who wanted the shifters handy, so
they
> didn't have to move their hands too far from the handlebars, and the brake
> levers just as handy. They weren't racers, nor did they want to be.
>
> As Jerry Moos alluded to, both of these approaches to shift levers and
brake
> levers are commonly looked down upon as not for "serious" riders with a
> certain amount of snobbism. I believe it to be mostly an opinion born of
> image consciousness. I rode with both for years on my ubiquitous Schwinn
> Varsity and never had a single problem with injury or suicide. And they
> functioned exactly as they were meant to function.
>
> Then I became a more "serious" rider and so shunned such "unsophisticated"
> equipment. Now that I'm a bit older, slower and, I hope, wiser, I keep
> thinking how nice and convenient it would be to have'em on my "run to the
> grocery store and post office" bike.
>
> So, if you don't like them for yourself, try and accept the fact that, for
> certain applications, they work just fine. Just my two cents.
>
> John Dunn in Napa Valley now donning Nomex suit
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Feldman <feldmanbike@home.com>
> To: Stockwell, Brad <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com>; 'Jerry Moos'
> <moos@penn.com>; John <bikehunt@pacbell.net>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
> Approved"plus commerc ial
>
>
> > Hear, Hear,
> > I never had good thoughts about either stem shifters or suicide brake
> > levers; they were fashion items of no function sort of like the front
> shock
> > forks on sub-$300 mountain bikes today. They were a cheap takeoff on
> barcon
> > shifters and randonneur brake levers which are both safe, functional
> items.
> > One relocation that always has looked and felt good to these eyes were
the
> > wingnut shaped Suntour
> > shifter that mounted near the brake lever on drop bars.
> > David Feldman
> > ----------
> > >From: "Stockwell, Brad" <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com>
> > >To: "'Jerry Moos'" <moos@penn.com>, John <bikehunt@pacbell.net>
> > >Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > >Subject: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
> Approved"
> > plus commerc ial
> > >Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2000, 10:01 AM
> > >
> >
> > >MY TWO CENTS ON STEM SHIFTERS:
> > >
> > > To me, the drag was that you almost have to sit up to shift.
> > >
> > > I don't know how many of you actually use your fingertips to shift
> (OK,
> > >maybe those with Simplex retrofriction levers can get away with that)
but
> I
> > >generally shift my somewhat stiff Campy-style levers by grasping the
> > >downtube-mounted lever from above -- sandwiching the lever between the
> heal
> > >of my thumb on the 'front' side and the remainder of my fingers on the
> > >'back' side - so I'm sort of pushing the lever with my wrist/palm
rather
> > >than my relatively weaker fingertips. Is this verbiage making any
sense?
> > >
> > > Well, so, if you're gonna shift the rear derailleur with stem
> shifters
> > >you've gotta sit up, put your left hand on the bar tops near the stem,
> then
> > >shift with the right hand, then resume your original position on the
> hoods
> > >or the drops or where ever.
> > >
> > > (True confessions: my first 10-speed was a Nishiki Olympic with
> > >'champagne' paint, 'safety' levers, stem shifters, a plastic 'quilted
> look'
> > >saddle, and reflector-weighted-always-right-side-up pedals. This bike
> was
> > >stolen 2 months later, and replaced 8 months later by a used Zeus
> > >Competition.)
> > >
> > > Now, with down-tube levers you can stay right where you are. You
get
> > >plenty of leverage fulcruming against the frame and there is no effect
on
> > >steering.
> > >
> > > I don't know, maybe it's just me. I also have issues with
bar-ends.
> > >
> > > Brad "put 'em on the dog-gone downtube, thank you" Stockwell
> > > Palo Alto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jerry Moos [mailto:moos@penn.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:34 AM
> > > To: John
> > > Cc: brian blum; jfbender@umich.edu;
> > >classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
> > >Approved" plus commercial
> > >
> > > I think you have a point, John. There is a certain amount
> > >of snobbery that
> > > creaps into our thinking. These shifters do present an
> > >injury hazard in a crash
> > > - but the same could be said of those adjustable Cinelli
> > >steel track stems or
> > > pre-WWII Paramount stems. We probably think of stem
> > >shifters as ridiculous
> > > because they appeared on some pretty junky bikes. If Rene
> > >Herse had used them
> > > extensively, we'd probably be calling them "classic".
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Jerry Moos
> > >
> > > John wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just out of curiosity, what is it, exactly, that makes
> > >stem mounted shifters
> > > > "ridiculous"?? Stop guffawing, you veteran experts. I
> > >really want to know.
> > > >
> > > > John Dunn in Napa Valley
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: brian blum <brianblum@hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <jfbender@umich.edu>
> > > > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:10 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
> > >Approved" plus
> > > > commercial
> > > >
> > > > > I find it hard to imagine a Varsity as quality, though
> > >it could be
> > > > > consistant. I have a photo of an abandoned Schwinn
> > >Sports Tourer that has
> > > > > been lock in this rack for many years. It was there when
> > >I started working
> > > > > here 4 years ago. Grand Tourismo, TA cranks, brazed
> > >Reynolds 531 and
> > > > > rediculous stem mounted shifters just like a Varsity.
> > > > >
> > >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=269411&a=10226754&p=34344260
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <jfbender@umich.edu>
> > > > > To: "brian blum" <brianblum@hotmail.com>
> > > > > CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
> > >Approved" plus
> > > > > commercial
> > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:24:22 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah but a Varsity is a wonderful thing in terms of
> > >quality. Consistent,
> > > > > reliable. It worked. See Sheldon's site about the
> > >electroformed frame
> > > > > process. The consistency of the Schwinn product and what
> > >it stood for
> > > > > across the line is remarkable.
> > > > >
> > > > > My point about the Chiorda is that you have the good one
> > >and it is fine,
> > > > > but the lesser bikes were painful and they hurt their
> > >image.
> > > > >
> > > > > And now a special "Schwinn Approved" offering. Toe
> > >straps. White. NOS
> > > > (some
> > > > > have a little rust on the buckles. Made in Italy.
> > >Schwinn Sprint $2.
> > > > > Schwinn Approved $4. Plus shipping ($1-$3.20). Delivery
> > >may slide to
> > > > > January.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
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