A more subtle problem of most extension levers, especially the Dia Comp and earlier Weinmann types, is that they were stuck inbetween the brake lever body and lever, taking up prime space in the early part of the lever's travel, the part where the lever feels like it's developing more power. In addition, it shrank the band of travel of the lever and made necessary for the wheels to be perfectly straight and brakes perfectly adjusted more of the time. Naturally, the average buyer of a bike with extension levers was the least likely cyclist to pay attention to trueness of wheels and adjustment of brakes; more bikes with extension levers used to come into bike stores without safely working brakes than bikes without them. The best part about inexpensive ATB's and hybrids is that they drove this fraudulent and dangerous technology out of the market.
David Feldman
----------
>From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
>To: donrazr@juno.com
>Cc: bikehunt@pacbell.net, feldmanbike@home.com,
BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Re: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and
"Schwinn Approved"plus commerc ial
>Date: Fri, Dec 15, 2000, 7:39 PM
>
>I don't think there was really anything wrong with stem shifters, and
>although I never personally liked "suicide" levers, the only real problem
>with them was that it seemed to me that if there was a lot of cable stretch (
>to which the Weinmann/DiaComp CPs typically used with these levers were more
>suspectible than were SPs) and if the brakes were not adjusted, perhaps the
>levers could bottom against the bars before the pads firmly gripped the
>rims. I never really used these levers enough to experience this situation,
>and it may have been a lot less likey to happen than I thought at the time.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jerry Moos
>
>donrazr@juno.com wrote:
>
>> Many many happy trouble free miles on a 1982 KHS GranSport with stem
>> shifters and suicide brake levers. The perfect set up for me to get the
>> groceries in Alameda Ca. back then. Much more preferable to a beach
>> cruiser!
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:27:58 -0800 John D <bikehunt@pacbell.net> writes:
>> > I started this thread and still don't believe that what you say is
>> > valid,
>> > Dave. I don't think they had anything at all to do with fashion. And
>> > they
>> > certainly have as much function as shocks, front and rear, on the
>> > vast
>> > majority of mountain bikes on the road (I say road because most of
>> > them,
>> > like SUV's, never make it offroad. And we're talking bikes that are
>> > way
>> > above $300 entry level.
>> >
>> > I believe stem shifters and, what you call "suicide" brake levers,
>> > were
>> > developed for casual, upright riders who wanted the shifters handy,
>> > so they
>> > didn't have to move their hands too far from the handlebars, and the
>> > brake
>> > levers just as handy. They weren't racers, nor did they want to be.
>> >
>> > As Jerry Moos alluded to, both of these approaches to shift levers
>> > and brake
>> > levers are commonly looked down upon as not for "serious" riders
>> > with a
>> > certain amount of snobbism. I believe it to be mostly an opinion
>> > born of
>> > image consciousness. I rode with both for years on my ubiquitous
>> > Schwinn
>> > Varsity and never had a single problem with injury or suicide. And
>> > they
>> > functioned exactly as they were meant to function.
>> >
>> > Then I became a more "serious" rider and so shunned such
>> > "unsophisticated"
>> > equipment. Now that I'm a bit older, slower and, I hope, wiser, I
>> > keep
>> > thinking how nice and convenient it would be to have'em on my "run
>> > to the
>> > grocery store and post office" bike.
>> >
>> > So, if you don't like them for yourself, try and accept the fact
>> > that, for
>> > certain applications, they work just fine. Just my two cents.
>> >
>> > John Dunn in Napa Valley now donning Nomex suit
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Dave Feldman <feldmanbike@home.com>
>> > To: Stockwell, Brad <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com>; 'Jerry Moos'
>> > <moos@penn.com>; John <bikehunt@pacbell.net>
>> > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 5:00 PM
>> > Subject: Re: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
>> > Approved"plus commerc ial
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hear, Hear,
>> > > I never had good thoughts about either stem shifters or suicide
>> > brake
>> > > levers; they were fashion items of no function sort of like the
>> > front
>> > shock
>> > > forks on sub-$300 mountain bikes today. They were a cheap takeoff
>> > on
>> > barcon
>> > > shifters and randonneur brake levers which are both safe,
>> > functional
>> > items.
>> > > One relocation that always has looked and felt good to these eyes
>> > were the
>> > > wingnut shaped Suntour
>> > > shifter that mounted near the brake lever on drop bars.
>> > > David Feldman
>> > > ----------
>> > > >From: "Stockwell, Brad" <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com>
>> > > >To: "'Jerry Moos'" <moos@penn.com>, John <bikehunt@pacbell.net>
>> > > >Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> > > >Subject: {ClassicRend]RE: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
>> > Approved"
>> > > plus commerc ial
>> > > >Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2000, 10:01 AM
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >MY TWO CENTS ON STEM SHIFTERS:
>> > > >
>> > > > To me, the drag was that you almost have to sit up to shift.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know how many of you actually use your fingertips to
>> > shift
>> > (OK,
>> > > >maybe those with Simplex retrofriction levers can get away with
>> > that) but
>> > I
>> > > >generally shift my somewhat stiff Campy-style levers by grasping
>> > the
>> > > >downtube-mounted lever from above -- sandwiching the lever
>> > between the
>> > heal
>> > > >of my thumb on the 'front' side and the remainder of my fingers
>> > on the
>> > > >'back' side - so I'm sort of pushing the lever with my wrist/palm
>> > rather
>> > > >than my relatively weaker fingertips. Is this verbiage making
>> > any sense?
>> > > >
>> > > > Well, so, if you're gonna shift the rear derailleur with
>> > stem
>> > shifters
>> > > >you've gotta sit up, put your left hand on the bar tops near the
>> > stem,
>> > then
>> > > >shift with the right hand, then resume your original position on
>> > the
>> > hoods
>> > > >or the drops or where ever.
>> > > >
>> > > > (True confessions: my first 10-speed was a Nishiki Olympic
>> > with
>> > > >'champagne' paint, 'safety' levers, stem shifters, a plastic
>> > 'quilted
>> > look'
>> > > >saddle, and reflector-weighted-always-right-side-up pedals. This
>> > bike
>> > was
>> > > >stolen 2 months later, and replaced 8 months later by a used
>> > Zeus
>> > > >Competition.)
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, with down-tube levers you can stay right where you are.
>> > You get
>> > > >plenty of leverage fulcruming against the frame and there is no
>> > effect on
>> > > >steering.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know, maybe it's just me. I also have issues with
>> > bar-ends.
>> > > >
>> > > > Brad "put 'em on the dog-gone downtube, thank you" Stockwell
>> > > > Palo Alto
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: Jerry Moos [mailto:moos@penn.com]
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:34 AM
>> > > > To: John
>> > > > Cc: brian blum; jfbender@umich.edu;
>> > > >classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
>> > > >Approved" plus commercial
>> > > >
>> > > > I think you have a point, John. There is a certain amount
>> > > >of snobbery that
>> > > > creaps into our thinking. These shifters do present an
>> > > >injury hazard in a crash
>> > > > - but the same could be said of those adjustable Cinelli
>> > > >steel track stems or
>> > > > pre-WWII Paramount stems. We probably think of stem
>> > > >shifters as ridiculous
>> > > > because they appeared on some pretty junky bikes. If Rene
>> > > >Herse had used them
>> > > > extensively, we'd probably be calling them "classic".
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > > Jerry Moos
>> > > >
>> > > > John wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Just out of curiosity, what is it, exactly, that makes
>> > > >stem mounted shifters
>> > > > > "ridiculous"?? Stop guffawing, you veteran experts. I
>> > > >really want to know.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > John Dunn in Napa Valley
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: brian blum <brianblum@hotmail.com>
>> > > > > To: <jfbender@umich.edu>
>> > > > > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:10 PM
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
>> > > >Approved" plus
>> > > > > commercial
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I find it hard to imagine a Varsity as quality, though
>> > > >it could be
>> > > > > > consistant. I have a photo of an abandoned Schwinn
>> > > >Sports Tourer that has
>> > > > > > been lock in this rack for many years. It was there when
>> > > >I started working
>> > > > > > here 4 years ago. Grand Tourismo, TA cranks, brazed
>> > > >Reynolds 531 and
>> > > > > > rediculous stem mounted shifters just like a Varsity.
>> > > > > >
>> > >
>> > >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=269411&a=10226754&p=34344260
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Brian
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
>> > > > > > From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <jfbender@umich.edu>
>> > > > > > To: "brian blum" <brianblum@hotmail.com>
>> > > > > > CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Atala and "Schwinn
>> > > >Approved" plus
>> > > > > > commercial
>> > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:24:22 -0800
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Ah but a Varsity is a wonderful thing in terms of
>> > > >quality. Consistent,
>> > > > > > reliable. It worked. See Sheldon's site about the
>> > > >electroformed frame
>> > > > > > process. The consistency of the Schwinn product and what
>> > > >it stood for
>> > > > > > across the line is remarkable.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > My point about the Chiorda is that you have the good one
>> > > >and it is fine,
>> > > > > > but the lesser bikes were painful and they hurt their
>> > > >image.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > And now a special "Schwinn Approved" offering. Toe
>> > > >straps. White. NOS
>> > > > > (some
>> > > > > > have a little rust on the buckles. Made in Italy.
>> > > >Schwinn Sprint $2.
>> > > > > > Schwinn Approved $4. Plus shipping ($1-$3.20). Delivery
>> > > >may slide to
>> > > > > > January.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Joe
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >________________________________________________________________________
>> ___
>> > _
>> > > > > _________
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > Classicrendezvous mailing list
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>> > > > > >
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>> > > > >
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