Well, I did some research last night and learned the following information. Hurlow DID experiment with fastback stays before the war, but they never went into production . He was with Holdsworth then and building production frames as fast as he could tick them out.
However, the London concern of Buckleys (Forest Hill, Dartmouth Rd) was using this stay arrangement as early as the late 30's. Another variation of the fastback stay, although they did not use the integral seat binder, was used at Mercian in 1946, according to Mr. Betton. This alone pre-dates Cinelli by a couple of years.
Can anyone (Hilary) tell me the evolution of Condor (from Conrad and Law - Triumph Cycles - Triumph House - Condor) and the involvement of Monty Young. BTW, Mr. Hurlow worked for them in 1953.
Best Regards, ken denny Boston USA
>From: "Hilary Stone" <Hilary.Stone@Tesco.net>
>To: Donald Dundee <rebour@hotmail.com> , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR] Cinelli Myths aluminium bars, fastback seatstay
>design
>Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:09:47 +0000
>
>Ken Denny wrote:
> >
> > The BL article implys, and many believe, that Cino developed the allopy
> > handlebar.
> >
> > The development of Cinelli alloy bars, to the best of my knowledge
>came
> > much later in his career, as late as the early 60's, and went into
> > production in the mid 60's. However, I think we should try to determine
> > here, with the help of some of the historians on this list, as to when
>the
> > earliest lightweight, dropped style, racing handlebars first appeared. I
> > know for a fact that Caminade developed them as early as 1935/6, and
>that
> > the British publication "Cycling" hailed that development in as August
>1936
> > article hailing that makers achievements. the 1940 Hudson Superlight
> > Accessories catalog lists Hudson Dural Bars and stems (thanks C.S.).
> >
>Reynolds (the same company that made 531 tubing) offered aluminium alloy
>handlebars from 1935 (and anodised with various colours including black).
>An
>early 1960s Cinelli catalogue I have only features steel bars.
>
>Ken continues:
> Another Cinelli myth, that has long been trademarked as a Cinelli "first"
>is
> > the fastback seat stay. Interesting that there is a Condor on EBay that
>has
> > a very nice fastback seat stay detail. That particular design can be
> > attributed to British builder William B. Hurlow, who developed that idea
>at
> > Condor Cycles in the late 30's, later utilizing it in his own designs as
> > well as for work he jobbed for the Holdsworthy concern. Weather or not
> > Hurlow's work in this area can be attributed to other influences I do
>not
> > know for sure, but in speaking with him on several ocassions, his
>feeling in
> > the design o fthat particular stay detail was that it was a "natural
> > location for the stays to terminate, directly on the centerline of the
>top
> > tube, and the graphic detail of integrating the binder bolt into this
>detail
> > was a 'natural' outcome."
> >
> >
>Condor Cycles did not exist in the 1930s. Bill Hurlow worked at Grubb in
>the
>late 1940s and I don't think went to work for Condors until the early to
>middle 1950s. Whilst at Grubb I don't think he used a fastback seatstay
>design and I don't think he introduced the fastback design at Condors until
>the early to mid 1960s. I have an undated Condor catalogue which I would
>place at about 1960 the fastback design is not featured though the
>various
>Bill Hurlow lug designs are. He also built the top end frames for Mal Rees
>whilst building Condors. Again the one Mal Rees catalogue I have from about
>1962 does not feature fastback stays. However I have a Mercian catalogue
>which appears to be dated as 1959. There they introduce a new model, the
>Superlight which does feature fastback seatstays and which theu claim to be
>new. The fastback seatstay design I think probably can be credited to
>Cinelli though what do we quite mean by fastback design? Cinellis fastened
>his to the seat tube bolt behind the lug most others fastened their's
>directly to the rear of the seat tube.
>
>Regards
>Hilary Stone