[CR]RE: Broken Campy Retro Crank

(Example: Books:Ron Kitching)

From: "David Gordon (F)" <dgordon@flashcom.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:11:30 -0700
In-Reply-To: <CATFOODsAitVGeSJIEo000001d3@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]RE: Broken Campy Retro Crank

Speaking of broken Campy crank arms. I have a 1977 Neuvo Record 170mm set that had the right arm break in two, about 3 inches above the pedal, rather than at the threads or where the arm meets the star splines, like other had seen. It really hurt when I went down without warning! I fortunately was going only about 3mph up a super steep grade! But with the downward force letting loose like that, I went immediately to the pavement, crashing down on the top tube. Fortunately, it was the bottom of my thigh that came smashing into the toptube because I was thrown off center. I have 3 other bikes with old Campy crank arms and you can beter believe that I check them for stress cracks, but that experience almost makes me think I should go with new stuff like somebody suggested. I contacted Campagnolo and they never even responded, and I contacted my dealer and they said I'd be lucky to get anything and if I did it would take forever.

Regards,

David "Flash" Gordon Los Angeles, CA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:29 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #465 - 24 msgs

Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org

You can reach the person managing the list at classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."

CR

Today's Topics:

1. Cambio Corsa, or, how I learned to love the parallelogram derailleur (was re: Cambio Corsa rod shifter) (chasds@mindspring.com) 2. Broken Retro Crank Website (Chuck Schmidt) 3. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Diane Feldman) 4. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Chuck Schmidt) 5. Open "C" Campy shifters (gregparker1) 6. Merckx vs Ocana (brian blum) 7. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Capt. Crunch) 8. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Brandon Ives) 9. Re: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website (TW406@aol.com) 10. RE: Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap (Stockwell, Brad) 11. Re: Teledyne questions and appeal (Jerry Moos) 12. Ocana's fall (swampmtn) 13. Re: Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap (M4Campy) 14. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (gregparker1) 15. RE: Broken Retro Crank (gregparker1) 16. Re: Teledyne questions and appeal (Chuck Schmidt) 17. Re: Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap (Brandon Ives) 18. (no subject) (John Quigley) 19. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (RALEIGH531@aol.com) 20. Re: Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap (Chuck Schmidt) 21. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Brandon Ives) 22. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Chuck Schmidt) 23. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Brandon Ives) 24. Re: Broken Retro Crank Website (Chuck Schmidt)

--__--__--

Message: 1 From: chasds@mindspring.com Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:00:18 -0400 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Cambio Corsa, or, how I learned to love the parallelogram derailleur (was re: Cambio Corsa rod shifter)

Once I was the proud owner of a 1951 Bianchi Paris-Roubaix, with eponymous shifter system. I must say it's one of the coolest bike gizmos I've ever seen (right up there with that Simplex widget...the demultiplicator?); however, my experience with it was decidedly mixed.

Without wasting lots of space, I think it's fair to say that there was a very good reason why no-one used the thing (nor used the Cambio Corsa, which has the same problems, magnified by more complex operation)for more than a year or two....it's a nutty rube-goldbergian device, and close inspection, as well as my limited use of the PR shifter, together suggest that the system is reliable (if that's the word) only when brand new and all the parts are fitting together perfectly. Over time the splines on the axle wear, and no longer fit tightly in the drop-out teeth, which condition makes for dropped shifts, or, disasterously, bent drop-out teeth--at which point, the system is useless.

I have no doubt that Coppi and others negotiated these systems with near flawless efficiency...but note that *everyone* went to the Gran Sport almost the moment it became available..I doubt if that was just coincidence..

Charles Andrews Los Angeles

Doland wrote:

Does anybody have an idea as to how difficult or expensive it would be to fabricate something similar to the Cambio Corsa rod shifter? I'm taking just the shifter mechanism parts, I understand that serrated dropouts would be required as well, which is a different issue.

Reason I ask, is that it would be really neat to have the experience, but I don't know anybody that has one.

--__--__--

Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:30:44 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Slightly sobering website with broken cranks-- http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

--__--__--

Message: 3 From: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com> To: <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:43:07 -0700

Interesting. That site has the first broken TA and Sugino Mighty cranks I've ever seen. Campy has the reputation, especially on cranks that have been milled or otherwise had material removed. QC has improved tons over the years--I know this ain't PC, but if you had 100 NOS sets of Stronglight 63 cranks and 100 sets of new Ultegra cranks, the STronglight pile would have many more times the breakages out of the same number of miles ridden. The "sameness" in appearance of some modern load-bearing parts must certainly come from trying to design the stress risers out.

A mechanic's guess

David Feldman


----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Schmidt
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:30 PM
Subject: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website



> Slightly sobering website with broken cranks--
> http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, California
>
> _______________________________________________

--__--__--

Message: 4 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:22:13 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: John Quigley <eurocycle@hotmail.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

John Quigley wrote:
>
> No broken Shimanos or Suntours.

The reason might be that the Shimanos and SunTours had to be sent back to manufacturer.

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

--__--__--

Message: 5 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:31:40 -0400 From: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com> To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Open "C" Campy shifters

All:

Did the shift levers change to the later-style rounded "C" at about the same time as the q/r skewers?

Greg Parker winds gusting to 40mph in A2, Mich. but no snow!!

--__--__--

Message: 6 From: "brian blum" <brianblum@hotmail.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:33:01 Subject: [CR]Merckx vs Ocana

I read in a book about Merckx that he stood out of the Tour de France the next year Ocana participated because he did not feel it was right that he beat Ocana, he felt that the Tour should have been Ocana's that year. The year Eddy stayed out Ocana won, seems to me they both respected each other abilities and Ocana was at Merckx's level at that time. Brian in Berkeley, 58 degrees damp and sunny

What day is the Bay area CR ride Dave? nothing in your note about the day, and what day is the Cycles de Oro get together? Brian lost in Oakland _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 7 From: "Capt. Crunch" <afhost@veriomail.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:50:06 -0400
> The reason might be that the Shimanos and SunTours had to be sent back
> to manufacturer.
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, California

I'm fairly sure that's the case with Shimano. A friend of mine has broken a relatively late model Durace crank and spindle (two separate indicants). I never saw the crank but it was attributed to over tightening the fixing bolt. The spindle was the result of a manufacturing defect (spindle was drilled off center). Shimano was VERY helpful with the spindle incident to avoid a lawsuit I'm sure.

Andy Hosterman

--__--__--

Message: 8 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:05:05 -0500 (EST) From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> To: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Cc: John Quigley <eurocycle@hotmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

That's because Campy always said our stuff never breaks and if it did it's your fault. You can't fix faults if you don't believe they exist and never see the parts. I've tried to return tons of stuff to Campy over the years and the only way to get a replacement was to go through the bikes maker. They've gotten better over the years, but they still won't admit that they built a massive stess riser into the NR and SR cranks. The reason you see few broken Shimano and Suntour craks is that if they had a failure the company took care and fixed the problem. Let's hear it for R&D and warranty departments. If campy actually had either they wouldn't have had to play catch up for 10+ years. I love Campy stuff but when thay screw up they do it big time.

enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives semi-sunny santa barbara, california

"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Chuck Schmidt wrote:
> John Quigley wrote:
> >
> > No broken Shimanos or Suntours.
>
>
> The reason might be that the Shimanos and SunTours had to be sent back
> to manufacturer.
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, California
>
> _______________________________________________
>

--__--__--

Message: 9 From: TW406@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:07:36 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I bet them fine Schwinn Ashtabulas never broke. Lets hear it for good old, US of A steel and chrome. Bike parts should be constructed like the bumper of a '53 Buick, not like those flimsy aluminum beer can parts from Europe and Japan so favored by those sissy lightweight riders. If'n it don't move, chrome it!

Taid Texas an' Berkelay

--__--__--

Message: 10 From: "Stockwell, Brad" <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com> To: "'chuckschmidt@earthlink.net'" <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:08:36 -0700

To CR Folk:

BROKEN CRANK The Wheelsmith store in Palo Alto (now gone to glory, alas) used to have a display case with those broken parts scattered around in it, with a sign that said: Campy parts can break! Ric also had a Cinelli 1-R stem in there with a fine stress crack stretching across the bottom of the bar clamp.

My own 175mm NR right crank arm looks identical to picture #006: the pedal hangar cracked right through the middle in Nov '98. The resulting road-rash taught me to use modern cranks on the bikes that get heavy use.

CUPERTINO SWAP The annual Cupertino Bike Swap (which occurs in the parking lot behind the Cupertino Bike Shop) will be held on Sunday, April 29 this year from 10:00am to 4:00pm, $2 to get in. Although smaller than the gigantic Marin swap, I usually end up getting better stuff at Cupertino. The proceeds go to ROMP, "Rational Organized Mountain Pedalers" or something that sounds like that. Last year there were stands operated by Bradley Wohl of American Cyclery/BikeTrader, and also Janis Johnson of Vintage Velos - among many others.

Brad Stockwell Palo Alto

-----Original Message----- From: Chuck Schmidt [mailto:chuckschmidt@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:31 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Slightly sobering website with broken cranks-- http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

_______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

--__--__--

Message: 11 From: "Jerry Moos" <moos@penn.com> To: "Aldo Ross" <swampmtn@siscom.net>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:10:08 -0400

My point was that a frame with excessive flex would have less stable and less predictable handling and might be harder to keeep upright in unfavorable road condition. I feel less confident of the Teledyne's handling on the gravel roads in this area because it has noticeably greater frame flex. I suspect the Speedwell, with what appear to be smaller OD tubes than the Titan, would probably have even more flex. While one wants some absorption of shock on rough roads, I'd think a large amount of lateral flex in a frame woud make it more difficult to control on rough or wet roads.

Regards,

Jerry Moos


----- Original Message -----
From: Aldo Ross
To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal



> I thought at first you were kidding about "Speedwell's" instablity causing
> Ocana to crash in the 1971 TdF, but now I realize you're serious! That's a
> bit like saying "Raleigh 753 frames" must be unstable because Jan Raas
> crashed descending the Poggio, or Cannondale has a problem at high speed
> because Cipo's leadout man crashed in a sprint. LOL!
>
> Accounts I've read about that disasterous Stage 14 mention water flowing
> down the Col de Mente was sometimes 6" deep or deeper, leaving brakes
> hydroplaning and useless. Riders were sliding downhill on their shoes,
> stradling their top tube, in an attempt to maintain balance. Ocana "was
> without brakes". The section where he crashed is EXTREMELY STEEP, as you
> can see in the video. (It may have been Joop Zoetemelk who crashed into
> Ocana... I can't remember, but will look it up tonight.)
>
> Jose-Manuel Fuente won that stage, 6'21" ahead of Merckx.
>
> There's a good shot of Ocana in agony after the impact at:
> http://www.step.es/~jms/heroes/ocana6.jpg
>
> Note that he is in the Yellow Jersey - he was leading Merckx by 7'23" at the
> beginning of the day, with three mountain stages remaining.
>
> There's more on the Spanish-language page dedicated to him with other good
> pictures at:
> http://www.step.es/personales/jms/heroes/ocana.htm
>
> Merckx was lucky to make it through that turn. Seems to me he DID crash one
> turn earlier, or perhaps one turn later.
>
> Luis Ocana went on to win TdF in 1973, a race which Merckx missed.
>
> Aldo Ross
> sunny, but 45+ MPH winds in Excello, Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> To: <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Cc: Moos, Jerry <jmoos@urc.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal
>
>
> > It is one of those points that will always be debated. Perhaps the
> Speedwell
> > was a bit less stable. Probably Merckx was a bit more skilled, and almost
> > certainly he was more focused and determined to win - they didn't call him
> "the
> > Cannibal" for nothing. BTW, was this crash in a Tour after Ocana had won
> the
> > Tour, or did he come back from the crash to win the Tour afterwards?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________

--__--__--

Message: 12 From: "swampmtn" <swampmtn@siscom.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:22:33 -0400 Subject: [CR]Ocana's fall

Here's the Kennedy Brothers version of Ocana's crash:

"Over the Col de Mente Fuente built up a huge lead. Minutes later = Merckx led over the summit, with Ocana following, Guimard, Van Impe and = Zoetemelk further down, and Gosta Petterson dropped. Even Ocana was = some twenty meters down, having already countered two moves by Merckx. = Suddenly the storm broke, the sky blackened, and the road became a = twisting, cascading river. Brakes failed totally, and the leading = riders were saved from destruction by the quickness of their wits and = the soles of their shoes. For the second time Merckx hit the road as he = failed to alter course in time to avoid the rocks lining the road. = Similarly Ocana fell. Both picked themselves up, ready to rescue their = crazy pursuit, but now it was Zoetemelk who failed to negotiate the = corner and hurtlyed helplessly inot Ocana."

"Merckx fell twice more before the foot of the pass, and was passed by = the incredible Wagtmans, belly-flop on his saddle with feet splayed out = at the sides, both wheels smashed but himself undamaged and apparently = enjoying it."

At the finish Merckx tried to withdraw from the race, and refused to = wear the yellow jersey which Ocana had lost in such dramatic fashion. =20

Aldo Ross 82F, but still windier than blazes in Ohio =20

--__--__--

Message: 13 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:23:48 -0600 From: M4Campy <M4Campy@aol.com> Cc: BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap

BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com wrote:
> To CR Folk:
>
> My own 175mm NR right crank arm looks identical to picture #006: the pedal
> hangar cracked right through the middle in Nov '98. The resulting road-rash
> taught me to use modern cranks on the bikes that get heavy use.

Ok, now I'm getting nervous. Since I never saw but always heard of Campy crank failure what should I look out for. Stress crack along the pedal and stamp areas? Will there be any squeaks or a sign that impending doom and road-rash await?

I have an old 151BCD Pista on my fixed gear roadie that has few miles on it this year... Using a 44x16...

Of course, at around 130lbs should I worry???

Mike "Trying to avoid road-rash" Wilkinson

--__--__--

Message: 14 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:32:02 -0400 From: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website To: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> Cc: gregparker1 <110404.153@compuserve.com>, Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, John Quigley <eurocycle@hotmail.com>

Brandon:

I sorta hear you, but since they redesigned the crankarm to eliminate the=

stress riser (later, "double-bump" versions), and gave away a bunch as w= arranty parts (the infamous "11" and "21" parts?), it would be tough for them to=

say the problem never existed.

Of course, that wasn't the only spot they failed at. I've heard of more t= han one failure just above the pedal threads. That would be exciting if it happe= ned under full load!

Greg Parker PC A2 MI

Brandon Ives wrote:


>That's because Campy always said our stuff never breaks and if it did it= 's
>your fault. You can't fix faults if you don't believe they exist and
>never see the parts. I've tried to return tons of stuff to Campy over t= he
>years and the only way to get a replacement was to go through the bikes
>maker. They've gotten better over the years, but they still won't admit=
>that they built a massive stess riser into the NR and SR cranks. =

--__--__--

Message: 15 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:37:11 -0400 From: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: [CR]Broken Retro Crank To: "Stockwell, Brad" <BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com> Cc: gregparker1 <110404.153@compuserve.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, "'chuckschmidt@earthlink.net'" <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>

Brad:

Ouch. I've heard of that failure mode also. Approx. how many miles were on those crankarms when they failed?

Greg Parker

P.S. Gladly taking any uncracked 175 NR/SR arms you'd like to jettison, but NOS is best....!

Brad Stockwell wrote:


>My own 175mm NR right crank arm looks identical to picture #006: the ped= al
>hangar cracked right through the middle in Nov '98. The resulting road-= rash
>taught me to use modern cranks on the bikes that get heavy use.

--__--__--

Message: 16 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:46:31 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Teledyne questions and appeal

Jerry Moos wrote:
>
> My point was that a frame with excessive flex would have less stable and
> less predictable handling and might be harder to keeep upright in
> unfavorable road condition. I feel less confident of the Teledyne's
> handling on the gravel roads in this area because it has noticeably greater
> frame flex. I suspect the Speedwell, with what appear to be smaller OD
> tubes than the Titan, would probably have even more flex. While one wants
> some absorption of shock on rough roads, I'd think a large amount of lateral
> flex in a frame woud make it more difficult to control on rough or wet
> roads.

Frames with lots of flex do not exhibit less predictable handling; you adapt to the frames handling characteristics and you ride within those capabilities, just as you adapt to wet roads that are slick or wet brakes that take a longer distance to stop.

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

--__--__--

Message: 17 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:46:30 -0500 (EST) From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> To: M4Campy <M4Campy@aol.com> Cc: BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap

THe real problem point is where the spider meets the arm and there's a really sharp shelf there. To my annoyance I've found that one of my pair of Mavic SSC cranks has this crack and it's at least half way through the arm. This is what they get for copying a poor design, oh well. enjoy, Brandon Ives

"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, M4Campy wrote:
> BRAD.STOCKWELL@mpp.cpii.com wrote:
>
> > To CR Folk:
> >
> > My own 175mm NR right crank arm looks identical to picture #006: the pedal
> > hangar cracked right through the middle in Nov '98. The resulting road-rash
> > taught me to use modern cranks on the bikes that get heavy use.
>
> Ok, now I'm getting nervous. Since I never saw but always heard
> of Campy crank failure what should I look out for. Stress crack
> along the pedal and stamp areas? Will there be any squeaks or a
> sign that impending doom and road-rash await?
>
> I have an old 151BCD Pista on my fixed gear roadie that has few
> miles on it this year... Using a 44x16...
>
> Of course, at around 130lbs should I worry???
>
> Mike "Trying to avoid road-rash" Wilkinson
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>

--__--__--

Message: 18 From: "John Quigley" <eurocycle@hotmail.com> To: GregParker1@compuserve.com, monkey37@bluemarble.net Cc: 110404.153@compuserve.com, chuckschmidt@earthlink.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:49:08 -0500 Subject: [CR](no subject)

I also hated the Chorus or pre-chorus "indexing" downtube shifters. I once got a replacement from a bike shop & of course they still performed badly.


>From: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com>
>To: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
>CC: gregparker1 <110404.153@compuserve.com>, Chuck Schmidt
><chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, John Quigley
><eurocycle@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:32:02 -0400
>
>Brandon:
>
>I sorta hear you, but since they redesigned the crankarm to eliminate the
> stress riser (later, "double-bump" versions), and gave away a bunch as
>warranty
> parts (the infamous "11" and "21" parts?), it would be tough for them to
> say the problem never existed.
>
>Of course, that wasn't the only spot they failed at. I've heard of more
>than one
> failure just above the pedal threads. That would be exciting if it
>happened under
> full load!
>
>Greg Parker
>PC A2 MI
>
>
>Brandon Ives wrote:
>
>
> >That's because Campy always said our stuff never breaks and if it did
>it's
> >your fault. You can't fix faults if you don't believe they exist and
> >never see the parts. I've tried to return tons of stuff to Campy over
>the
> >years and the only way to get a replacement was to go through the bikes
> >maker. They've gotten better over the years, but they still won't admit
> >that they built a massive stess riser into the NR and SR cranks.
>_______________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 19 From: RALEIGH531@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:50:10 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

So how much should I be concerned about scuff marks from straps or gouges from derailleurs? Seems like just a shiny spot from the leather should do no harm. OTOH: I have a 165mm Suntour crank with 1/32'' gouge from an out of adjustment derailleur. It has held up under single speed service with 230 lbs leaning on it, seems like if it was going to break it would have by now. Do I file and sand the gouge or throw it out?

Just how sure are we that these components (in the broken crank site) were not defective from new and would have failed sooner or later regardless of any marks on them.

Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

--__--__--

Message: 20 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:55:49 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank & Cupertino Swap

Brandon Ives wrote:
>
> THe real problem point is where the spider meets the arm and there's a
> really sharp shelf there. To my annoyance I've found that one of my pair
> of Mavic SSC cranks has this crack and it's at least half way through the
> arm. This is what they get for copying a poor design, oh well.
> enjoy,
> Brandon Ives

My experience is that Campagnolo cranks typically break elsewhere before they ever break at the spider, which typically exhibits a crack with use, unless the web where the arm meets the spider is filed with a nice smooth radius.

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

--__--__--

Message: 21 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:57:01 -0500 (EST) From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> To: gregparker1 <GregParker1@compuserve.com> Cc: gregparker1 <110404.153@compuserve.com>, Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, John Quigley <eurocycle@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Yes they did make a "warranty" crank, but to this day they won't believe it was a design flaw. I have a letter in storage from around '92 that states this. If I can find it I'll post it. They said the "double hump" was just the evolution of the design not the fixing of a problem. This letter and all my warrnty information came about from my talking to them about a track hub cone that was broken while new in the box. I don't know how, my only guess is when the locknut was tightened against the cone an internal stress killed it. I showed it to the Campy rep and he said it couldn't be one of their cones, even though it had all the Campy markings. I still have the cone somewhere too.

The break above the pedal eye I've only seen once, but the pedal hole itself breaking was fairly common. The only time I ever saw it happen in person was following a friend climbing up Snoqualmie(SP?) Pass outside of Seattle. I was really scary.

enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives

"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, gregparker1 wrote:
> Brandon:
>
> I sorta hear you, but since they redesigned the crankarm to eliminate the
> stress riser (later, "double-bump" versions), and gave away a bunch as warranty
> parts (the infamous "11" and "21" parts?), it would be tough for them to
> say the problem never existed.
>
> Of course, that wasn't the only spot they failed at. I've heard of more than one
> failure just above the pedal threads. That would be exciting if it happened under
> full load!
>
> Greg Parker
> PC A2 MI
>
>
> Brandon Ives wrote:
>
>
> >That's because Campy always said our stuff never breaks and if it did it's
> >your fault. You can't fix faults if you don't believe they exist and
> >never see the parts. I've tried to return tons of stuff to Campy over the
> >years and the only way to get a replacement was to go through the bikes
> >maker. They've gotten better over the years, but they still won't admit
> >that they built a massive stess riser into the NR and SR cranks.
>

--__--__--

Message: 22 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:04:48 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Brandon Ives wrote:
>
> Yes they did make a "warranty" crank, but to this day they won't believe
> it was a design flaw.

Do you think the Campagnolo lawyer's would think it was a good idea to acknowledge a "design flaw." Alloy cranks started breaking in 1935.

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

--__--__--

Message: 23 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:15:57 -0500 (EST) From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> To: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Campy wasn't worried about lawsuits. They were worried they may be thought of as other than perfect. It's the same attitude that caused them to go from the biggest to smallest component manufacturer with in three years. One of the reasons people love Campagnolo is because of the "we're the best" attitude. It's hurt them before and it'll hurt them again, you can bet on it.

enjoy, Brandon Ives

"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Chuck Schmidt wrote:
> Brandon Ives wrote:
> >
> > Yes they did make a "warranty" crank, but to this day they won't believe
> > it was a design flaw.
>
>
> Do you think the Campagnolo lawyer's would think it was a good idea to
> acknowledge a "design flaw." Alloy cranks started breaking in 1935.
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, California
>
> _______________________________________________
>

--__--__--

Message: 24 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:31:51 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Broken Retro Crank Website

Brandon Ives wrote:
>
> Campy wasn't worried about lawsuits. They were worried they may be
> thought of as other than perfect. (snip)

On the contrary...

Chuck

--__--__--

_______________________________________________

End of Classicrendezvous Digest