Hi, any of the Hetchins transfers will be correct (Tottenham). Pick any colour from the 60's, Coronation transfers can look nice with the corresponding head tube colour. Try David miller for the h/badge. Regards Clive Rodell. -----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Tuesday, 24 April 2001 6:45 Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #495 - 17 msgs
>Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>
>
>CR
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. 55 cm Cinelli on E-bay- 2 hours (Joseph Bender-Zanoni)
> 2. Re: Falcon Decals (Jay Schiavone)
> 3. Re: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Richard Rose)
> 4. Threaded vs. Threadless etc. (Mark Poore)
> 5. Hetchins Old Yeller (Christopher Cleveland)
> 6. Re: SV: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay (Jeff Archer)
> 7. Re: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Chuck Schmidt)
> 8. Re: SV: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay (Jeff Slotkin)
> 9. Re: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Chuck Schmidt)
> 10. RE: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Mark Bulgier)
> 11. Re: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Chuck Schmidt)
> 12. RE: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Mark Bulgier)
> 13. Re: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Chuck Schmidt)
> 14. RE: Talking about builders, Ugo in specific (Mark Bulgier)
> 15. Re: Rauler/ Yoshi Kono Allez (siverson@garlic.com)
> 16. Subject: Undeliverable: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo (Chuck
Schmidt)
> 17. Old bikes vs New bikes (Roadgiant@cs.com)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:56:51 -0700
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <jfbender@umich.edu>
>Subject: [CR]55 cm Cinelli on E-bay- 2 hours
>
>This bike looks to be in really nice shape and the seller doesn't even
>mention the Campy freewheel.
>
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>From: "Jay Schiavone" <jayschiavone@hotmail.com>
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:12:35 -0400
>Subject: [CR]Re: Falcon Decals
>
>Does anybody know where I can get some decals for a Falcon.
>
>
>>From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>>Reply-To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #493 - 5 msgs
>>Date: 23 Apr 2001 12:03:41 -0700
>>
>>Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
>> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>> classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>>
>>
>>CR
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Titanium rims on eBay (Aldo Ross)
>> 2. Re: Titanium rims on eBay (Brandon Ives)
>> 3. Re: Rauler Frame (OROBOYZ@aol.com)
>> 4. Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay (Moos, Jerry)
>> 5. Re: Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay (Brandon Ives)
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>Message: 1
>>From: "Aldo Ross" <swampmtn@siscom.net>
>>To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:42:30 -0400
>>Subject: [CR]Titanium rims on eBay
>>
>>Here's something I don't remember seeing before - Araya Titanium rims:
>>
>>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>>
>>Anyone have experience with these?
>>
>>Aldo Ross
>>
>>
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:30:16 -0500 (EST)
>>From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
>>To: Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net>
>>Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Subject: Re: [CR]Titanium rims on eBay
>>
>>I had a pair as wheels in @'91 and they were really soft. You could
>>actually feel it while riding and cornering hard and they were built up
>>really tight. Not all that
>>light that I remember, but really cool. The pair I had dented really
>>easily. Rims really
>>aren't a great application for Titanium since the ratio of stiffness,
>>stength, and weight aren't better than aluminum in this
>>application. Let's just say that if they were better than aluminum you'd
>>see more Ti rims. Please let's not turn
>>this into a technical argument. Anyway, these would be a good idea for a
>>show bike, but I wouldn't put a lot of miles on them. With that said if
>>the price doesn't go too high I may bid on them since I'm a real
>>retro-techno-wheenie and things like this make me drool.
>>enjoy,
>>Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would
>>get done." Gil Scott-Heron
>>
>>On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Aldo Ross wrote:
>>
>> > Here's something I don't remember seeing before - Araya Titanium rims:
>> >
>> > http://ebay.com/
>> >
>> > Anyone have experience with these?
>> >
>> > Aldo Ross
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>Message: 3
>>From: OROBOYZ@aol.com
>>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:05:37 EDT
>>Subject: Re: [CR]Rauler Frame
>>To: rauler47@hotmail.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>
>>In a message dated 4/23/2001 11:13:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>rauler47@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>><< a 1984 Rauler, with very fancy chromed lugs very
>> unusual for an Italian frame, >>
>>
>>Mark stopped by cycles de ORO a few days ago and I got to see this bike
and
>>I
>>frankly was surprised.. It outdoes a Colnago Arabesque!... in elaborate
>>shapings of the lugs and details. Almost an "Italian HJetchins."
>>I had seen Railers a bunch of years ago when someone in Arizona or New
>>Mexico
>>(?) was trying to import them but had never seen anything like this bike.
>>That's great we will all get to see it at the Cirque.
>>
>>Dale Brown
>>Greensboro, North Carolina
>>
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>Message: 4
>>From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
>>To: 'Brandon Ives' <monkey37@bluemarble.net>,
>> Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net>
>>Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:25:43 -0400
>>Subject: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay
>>
>>Seems that at the time various companies were trying to trying to make
just
>>about every bike component from titanium. Some of them make sense, rims
>>did
>>not. I hesitate to mention engineering professors after the recent
>>rotational inertia thread, but I remember one of my profs commenting that
>>if
>>steel were suddenly invented today, it would be hailed as a high-tech
>>wonder
>>material. Alloy steel really is pretty remarkable stuff, although
aluminum
>>and titanium have displaced steel in a lot of components in bikes and
>>elsewhere since the 50's. Seems people always look for places to use the
>>latest materials, with the sensible applications enduring and the others
>>like titanium rims becoming collectors items. I think the ultimate dumb
>>idea in materials for bikes, and therefore maybe the ultimate collectors
>>item, would be the Original All-Plastic Bike someone tried to push in the
>>70's. This was evidently mostly a scam to bilk investors, but someone on
>>the list, I think maybe it was Sheldon, confirmed that at least one was
>>made
>>as he saw it up close at a bike trade show. It would be really neat to
>>have
>>that baby, though it was probably totally unrideable. BTW speaking of
>>other
>>materials replacing steel, how many old steel crankarms ever broke? I'll
>>bet steel crank failures were a lot rarer than the alloy crank failures
>>like
>>the ones on the web site someone posted a link to. If steel were invented
>>today, its manufacturers might try to lobby the CPSC to outlaw those
>>"dangerous" alloy cranks in favor of "safe" steel ones.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jerry "former member of the United Steelworkers union (many years ago)"
>>Moos
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brandon Ives [mailto:monkey37@bluemarble.net]
>>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 1:30 PM
>>To: Aldo Ross
>>Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Subject: Re: [CR]Titanium rims on eBay
>>
>>
>>I had a pair as wheels in @'91 and they were really soft. You could
>>actually feel it while riding and cornering hard and they were built up
>>really tight. Not all that
>>light that I remember, but really cool. The pair I had dented really
>>easily. Rims really
>>aren't a great application for Titanium since the ratio of stiffness,
>>stength, and weight aren't better than aluminum in this
>>application. Let's just say that if they were better than aluminum you'd
>>see more Ti rims. Please let's not turn
>>this into a technical argument. Anyway, these would be a good idea for a
>>show bike, but I wouldn't put a lot of miles on them. With that said if
>>the price doesn't go too high I may bid on them since I'm a real
>>retro-techno-wheenie and things like this make me drool.
>>enjoy,
>>Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would
>>get done." Gil Scott-Heron
>>
>>On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Aldo Ross wrote:
>>
>> > Here's something I don't remember seeing before - Araya Titanium rims:
>> >
>> > http://ebay.com/
>> >
>> > Anyone have experience with these?
>> >
>> > Aldo Ross
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>Message: 5
>>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:50:34 -0500 (EST)
>>From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
>>To: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
>>Cc: Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Subject: [CR]Re: Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay
>>
>>Bamboo is the wonder material of the next decade, and last century. If
>>you've read William Gibson "Virtual Light" there's a lot of talk about
>>paper bikes, yea it maybe a cyberpunk novel but I've heard of someone
>>actually building one back in '72 or so. Speaking of steel cranks I'm a
>>big fan of Bullseyes since I've never found anything stiffer and they've
>>hardly changed since their inception in around '78, plus they're
>>actually pretty light. My current Bullseyes
>>on my Lotus fixed were from this time period and though they were covered
>>in rust when I found them, a good sandblasting and repaint and they're
>>good
>>as new. Smart design is where you find it.
>>
>>enjoy,
>>Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>
>>"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would
>>get done." Gil Scott-Heron
>>
>>On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Moos, Jerry wrote:
>>
>> > Seems that at the time various companies were trying to trying to make
>>just
>> > about every bike component from titanium. Some of them make sense,
rims
>>did
>> > not. I hesitate to mention engineering professors after the recent
>> > rotational inertia thread, but I remember one of my profs commenting
>>that if
>> > steel were suddenly invented today, it would be hailed as a high-tech
>>wonder
>> > material. Alloy steel really is pretty remarkable stuff, although
>>aluminum
>> > and titanium have displaced steel in a lot of components in bikes and
>> > elsewhere since the 50's. Seems people always look for places to use
>>the
>> > latest materials, with the sensible applications enduring and the
others
>> > like titanium rims becoming collectors items. I think the ultimate
dumb
>> > idea in materials for bikes, and therefore maybe the ultimate
collectors
>> > item, would be the Original All-Plastic Bike someone tried to push in
>>the
>> > 70's. This was evidently mostly a scam to bilk investors, but someone
>>on
>> > the list, I think maybe it was Sheldon, confirmed that at least one was
>>made
>> > as he saw it up close at a bike trade show. It would be really neat to
>>have
>> > that baby, though it was probably totally unrideable. BTW speaking of
>>other
>> > materials replacing steel, how many old steel crankarms ever broke?
>>I'll
>> > bet steel crank failures were a lot rarer than the alloy crank failures
>>like
>> > the ones on the web site someone posted a link to. If steel were
>>invented
>> > today, its manufacturers might try to lobby the CPSC to outlaw those
>> > "dangerous" alloy cranks in favor of "safe" steel ones.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jerry "former member of the United Steelworkers union (many years ago)"
>>Moos
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Brandon Ives [mailto:monkey37@bluemarble.net]
>> > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 1:30 PM
>> > To: Aldo Ross
>> > Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> > Subject: Re: [CR]Titanium rims on eBay
>> >
>> >
>> > I had a pair as wheels in @'91 and they were really soft. You could
>> > actually feel it while riding and cornering hard and they were built up
>> > really tight. Not all that
>> > light that I remember, but really cool. The pair I had dented really
>> > easily. Rims really
>> > aren't a great application for Titanium since the ratio of stiffness,
>> > stength, and weight aren't better than aluminum in this
>> > application. Let's just say that if they were better than aluminum
>>you'd
>> > see more Ti rims. Please let's not turn
>> > this into a technical argument. Anyway, these would be a good idea for
>>a
>> > show bike, but I wouldn't put a lot of miles on them. With that said
if
>> > the price doesn't go too high I may bid on them since I'm a real
>> > retro-techno-wheenie and things like this make me drool.
>> > enjoy,
>> > Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>> > "Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything
>>would
>> > get done." Gil Scott-Heron
>> >
>> > On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Aldo Ross wrote:
>> >
>> > > Here's something I don't remember seeing before - Araya Titanium
rims:
>> > >
>> > > http://ebay.com/
>> > >
>> > > Anyone have experience with these?
>> > >
>> > > Aldo Ross
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- __--__--
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>End of Classicrendezvous Digest
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>From: "Richard Rose" <rmrose@toast.net>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> "Monkeyman" <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:13:24 -0400
>
>Oops! I forgot to add to my earlier reply; They (DeRosa's), aint what they
>used to be. And now, the paint realy is bad, at least on the ones I've
seen.
>But it is still a cool logo,
>Richard Rose (Toledo, Ohio)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Monkeyman" <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:37 PM
>Subject: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>
>
>> I hadn't really thought about it until somebody posted a WTB last week,
>but
>> I've heard next to nothing about Ugo DeRosa and his bikes on this list.
>> We've beat Masi and Colnago to death in the past, but I can't remember
>much
>> about DeRosa. I love his bike and would love to know more about them and
>> him.
>>
>> In the past I saw and rode a few of the Ugo blue bikes, though the
quality
>> of the paint was awful they were some of the best rides I've ever threw a
>> leg over. I remember seeing one of his anniversary bikes at Elliot Bay
>> Bikes in Seattle and to this day it haunts me as one of the most
beautiful
>> and subtile bikes ever. I've looked for them in the past and when I
found
>> them they were top top dollar. I looked at the CR page and there was
>> little info there, and the link somebody posted the other day is gone and
>> the web page is only in Italian. So shall we proceed to get into the
>> details of the DeRosa past as deeply as we have for other builders? The
>> only information I can add, and it's only a rumor, is that until his
>> retirement no frame left the shop without seeing his attentions.
>>
>> On a similar note, anybody out there who collected the whole Masi saga
>> could you please send me a copy since I didn't save them all, and I need
>to
>> sent the saga to my friend Jeff Lyon.
>>
>> enjoy,
>> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> Nobody can do everything,
>> but if everybody did something
>> everything would get done.
>> -Gil Scott Heron-
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>From: "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com>
>To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:34:45 -0400
>Subject: [CR]Threaded vs. Threadless etc.
>
>There are many benefits to a threadless system. In our shop, which mainly
>deals with mountain bikes, we keep on hand many different lengths and rises
>which then can be swapped to find just right stem for a customer. This
takes
>very little time and effort on our part and you dont have to mess with the
>handlebar tape, grips or brake levers. The customer feels you have gone the
>extra mile to help them get the right fit. Also, they are much easier to
>repack the headset when that time comes around, just three 5mm allan bolts.
>Then when it comes time to put it all back together adjustment is so
simple,
>not to mention the headset doesnt work loose, but generally that isnt a
>problem with road bikes. For my own personal bike when it is new I leave
>the steer tube a bit longer and use extra shims until I find the right
>height then cut it. With that said, give me a quill stem for my classic
road
>bikes.
>
>Mark with rain on the way
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:04:42 -0500
>From: "Christopher Cleveland" <ccleveland@briggs.com>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]Hetchins Old Yeller
>
>Dear CR Listmembers,
>
>Perhaps some of you will recall seeing a rather sad looking Hetchins
>curly for sale on the http://www.flashq.de site this past December and January.
> The photo showed a yellow bike leaning against a chickenwire fence. It
>was identified as a Brilliant "Circuit of Britain" sold from Hetchin's
>shop in 1964, serial # H27779. David Miller confirmed from the serial
>number that the frame was constructed in 1959.
>
>I bought this bicycle and had it shipped directly to Argos Racing
>Cycles in Bristol for restoration of the frame. I am the third owner.
>The first owner, a teenager, had the frame repainted in yellow. My
>initital plan was to have the frame restored to its original color, but
>Argos tells me that they can't determine the original finish. The
>headbadge is also missing.
>
>Can anyone tell me how I could get the proper headbadge?
>
>I am also looking for suggestions on typical paint schemes for a
>Brilliant of this period. There is no chrome on the frame or fork. I am
>aiming for a period-correct finish. Would the 1962 Brilliant on the
>flashq site be a good guide?
>
>Also, what are the correct transfers? I don't think the elaborate
>"Coronation" pattern is right.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help!
>
>Very truly yours,
>
>Chris Cleveland
>Minneapolis, Minnesota
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Reply-To: "Jeff Archer" <firstflight@abts.net>
>From: "Jeff Archer" <firstflight@abts.net>
>Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: SV: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:03:23 -0400
>Organization: First Flight Bicycles
>
>I have the ad copy and 2 scans of the Original Plastic Bike @
>http://www.firstflightbikes.com/newpage5.htm
>Makes for some interesting reading.
>Jeff Archer
>First Flight Bicycles
>216 S. Center St.
>Statesville, NC 28677
>704.878.9683
>firstflight@abts.net
>http://www.firstflightbikes.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <moos@penn.com>
>To: "Olof Stroh" <olof.stroh@hem.utfors.se>
>Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 6:17 PM
>Subject: Re: SV: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay
>
>
>> If you mean the bike I referrred to as the Original All-Plastic Bike, the
>> title I gave (or someting close) was what it was called in the
>> advertising. The Itera must have been a different and much more
reputable
>> product. As described in a post a year or two ago (by Sheldon I think),
>> the All-Plastic Bike was ALL plastic - gears, FW, chain, even spokes.
>> Sheldon recalled wanting to touch the spokes on the one on display at the
>> bike trade show to see if they had any tension, which he suspected they
>> did not, but was prevented by the rep. I suspect this prototype was
>> completely unrideable and probably the only one ever made. I doubt
>> seriously that anyone as reputable as a pair of former Volvo executives
>> had anything to do with the venture I'm referring to. The guys behind it
>> used the publicity to raise money from investors, then disappeared with
>> the funds. I've never heard who they were or if they were ever
>> prosecuted.
>>
>> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:26:45 -0800
>From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>
>Ugo De Rosa is one of my all time favs!!! He started building frames in
>the early 1960s. One of the best handling frames of all time; I think
>it defines Italian handling! He started building racing frames for Eddy
>Merckx around 1972 or 1973 after Eddy switched from Ernesto Colnago's
>bikes. Ugo also set up the Eddy Merckx factory when Eddy started
>manufacturing bikes upon his retirement from racing in the late-70s.
>The early Eddy Merckx had De Rosa marked fork ends!
>
>I had a 1981 De Rosa that was painted Mercedes Anthacite (dark metallic
>grey) and was regular six-speed (not "compact"); it had the Campagnolo
>chain hanger so was really spaced like regular seven, not compact
>seven. Twenty-eight hole Ambosio Synthesis Durex Super Professional
>sew-up rims with the dish almost completely flat on the drive side!!!
>Never had a problem with those wheels though.
>
>I recently bought a Ugo Blue 1989 De Rosa Professional SLX frame that
>went unsold for ten years at a local shop (Southern Californians can be
>a jaded lot... nobody wanted "obsolete steel"). Investment cast short
>point lugs (sorry Ritchie) with a cute yellow heart in the BB and the
>brake bridge. Very striking with the deep Ugo Blue, yellow Turbo SL
>saddle and yellow Benotto cello tape (very "pro" in the late-70s) to go
>with the yellow De Rosa decal repeated in different sizes on the three
>main tubes. The only things chromed are the two chain stays (diamond
>shaped) and the front and rear fork ends. It has 130mm spacing but I
>have a Regina CX six-speed freewheel so the hub has been respaced so
>there is almost no dish in the rear wheel! (I find I need a whole lot
>less gears after riding fixed-wheel bikes a lot!) Oh, I forgot, I put
>all Super Record on it. The catalog I have shows two Pro SLXs, one full
>C-Record and one with all Super Record.
>
>As the Alex man in Switzerland says... it's SCHWEEET!
>
>Chuck Schmidt
>South Pasadena, California
>
>ps Chris Chance (Fat City mountain bikes) went to Italy and taught Ugo
>how to tig weld frames! Too kewl.
>
>
>Monkeydude wrote:
>>
>> I hadn't really thought about it until somebody posted a WTB last week,
but
>> I've heard next to nothing about Ugo DeRosa and his bikes on this list.
>> We've beat Masi and Colnago to death in the past, but I can't remember
much
>> about DeRosa. I love his bike and would love to know more about them and
>> him.
>>
>> In the past I saw and rode a few of the Ugo blue bikes, though the
quality
>> of the paint was awful they were some of the best rides I've ever threw a
>> leg over. I remember seeing one of his anniversary bikes at Elliot Bay
>> Bikes in Seattle and to this day it haunts me as one of the most
beautiful
>> and subtile bikes ever. I've looked for them in the past and when I
found
>> them they were top top dollar. I looked at the CR page and there was
>> little info there, and the link somebody posted the other day is gone and
>> the web page is only in Italian. So shall we proceed to get into the
>> details of the DeRosa past as deeply as we have for other builders? The
>> only information I can add, and it's only a rumor, is that until his
>> retirement no frame left the shop without seeing his attentions.
>>
>> On a similar note, anybody out there who collected the whole Masi saga
>> could you please send me a copy since I didn't save them all, and I need
to
>> sent the saga to my friend Jeff Lyon.
>>
>> enjoy,
>> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> Nobody can do everything,
>> but if everybody did something
>> everything would get done.
>> -Gil Scott Heron-
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:49:10 -0400
>To: "Jeff Archer" <firstflight@abts.net>
>From: Jeff Slotkin <jeffslotkin@home.com>
>Subject: Re: SV: [CR]Bike Materials [was] Titanium rims on eBay
>Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
>At 11:03 PM 4/23/2001 -0400, Jeff Archer wrote:
>>I have the ad copy and 2 scans of the Original Plastic Bike @
>>http://www.firstflightbikes.com/newpage5.htm
>>Makes for some interesting reading.
>
>Whoever wrote that must surely have a cabinet position by now.
>Jeff Slotkin
>TheLocalSpoke
>Goose Creek, SC
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:39:19 -0800
>From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>
>Chuck Schmidt wrote:
>>
>> (I find I need a whole lot
>> less gears after riding fixed-wheel bikes a lot!)
>
>
>Oooops! Did I really type fixed-wheel? What I meant to type was
>fixed-gear...
>
>Chuck Schmidt
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: RE: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:15:46 -0700
>
>I also admire the de Rosa style and the de Rosa ride, but as with many
other
>brands we could name, the older ones had better workmanship. I think the
>brazing carousel was the downfall of de Rosa quality - and for every other
>builder that used a carousel too.
>
>I've seen maybe 5 de Rosas with the paint off (in for repaint), and on 2 of
>them the seat lug was about half brazed. Small sample size indeed, but a
>seat lug with no brass at all around half of the seat tube pocket AND the
>top tube pocket - that should NEVER happen - yet I've seen two. I just
>can't imagine that happening except in a carousel environment.
>
>With the brazing carousel, the guy brazing the seat lugs has to finish in
>the same amount of time as the guys doing the top lugs and down lugs. When
>the frame moves on to the next station, if you're not done, tough! I'm
sure
>the seat lug guy can yell to whoever is controlling the carousel "hey wait
>I'm not done yet", but how many times is he going to admit he's too slow
>(and risk getting fired?). There's a big tendency to just let it go. Also
>the concentration required is immense; speed up the process, and make it
>super repetitive (no top or down lugs or BBs to relieve the tedium) and
>there's bound to be lapses in concentration.
>
>I don't know when de Rosa went to carousel brazing - I'm guessing late
>80s-early 90s? Individual frames after that point might be superlative,
but
>I'm afraid the average quality had to have gone down.
>
>There are advantages to brazing quickly - the steel is damaged not just
from
>peak temperature, but also time-at-temperature, so a technique that makes
>the heat cycle shorter is usually a good thing. The trick is to avoid
>"burn-out" of the brazer.
>
>I made forks on a carousel at Davidson, but it was just two guys, and the
>brazer had control of when the carousel moved on - the other guy was just a
>fluxer/loader/unloader. That was actually fun, and making the forks faster
>made them better forks. When Bill started talking about a frame carousel
>though, he practically had a mutiny on his hands - all the brazers hated
the
>idea. Luckily he never got one - I think he knew quality would suffer, and
>he cared more about quality than quantity, bless him.
>
>I downloaded this video of the Colnago frame carousel, I forget where, but
>you can get it off my server if you want at
>http://bulgier.net/vids/colnago.mpeg It's big, 17 MB, so probably only for
>you guys with fast internet connections. The narration is so full of
>bullshit and lies that I lost what little respect I had for Colnago after
>viewing it. Imagine yourself one of those brazers, and remember it's
>ungodly loud and hellishly hot, and this video was staged for the camera so
>the reality is much worse. Then ask yourself what sort of craftsman would
>work under those conditions. I think the answer is "one who couldn't keep
>any other job".
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle, Wa USA
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:49:52 -0800
>From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>To: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>
>Mark Bulgier wrote:
>>
>> I also admire the de Rosa style and the de Rosa ride, but as with many
other
>> brands we could name, the older ones had better workmanship. I think the
>> brazing carousel was the downfall of de Rosa quality - and for every
other
>> builder that used a carousel too.
>
>
>
>Weeeelll... as they say... (my) ignorance is bliss :::::sigh:::::
>
>Chuck
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 12
>From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: RE: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:52:04 -0700
>
>Chuck wrote:
>>
>> Oooops! Did I really type fixed-wheel? What I meant to type was
>> fixed-gear...
>
>I've heard a lot of people call it fixed-wheel - is that so wrong? ;)
>
>When I was a young bike mechanic in a suburb of Hartford Conn, I was the
>designated go-to guy when our Jamaican customers came in, because I could
>understand their accent better than most of the others. Or maybe just
>because I liked them; some of the others in that shop were a little racist
I
>think. There was a small but vibrant and cohesive Jamaican community in
>Hartford, and one thing they seemed to have in common was riding what
>sounded to me like "fitz-wheels" - usually with enormous gear ratios. They
>were often in our shop to special-order 56 tooth rings for Stronglight 93
>cranks, or the special relieved track hub lockring required for 12 and
>13-tooth cogs. They knew what they wanted and were willing to
special-order
>and wait, though they weren't rich. I remember more than one "fitz-wheel"
>with the pedals bashed off, so the rider's bare feet bore on the pedal
>spindle. Still, as poor as they were, they weren't going to ride a
>freewheel if they could help it!
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle, Wa USA
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 13
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:06:33 -0800
>From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>
>Mark Bulgier wrote:
>>
>> (snip)Imagine yourself one of those brazers, and remember it's
>> ungodly loud and hellishly hot, and this video was staged for the camera
so
>> the reality is much worse. Then ask yourself what sort of craftsman
would
>> work under those conditions. I think the answer is "one who couldn't
keep
>> any other job".
>
>
>I gotta tell ya Mark that I've worked enough places in my lifetime (57)
>that you wind up working at a place that the reality didn't match up
>with what you imagined the job would be. Not necessarily the only job
>you could keep.
>
>I used to see very talented artists stuck at the Los Angeles Times
>newspaper wasting their creative and productive years solely for the
>sake of job security and maybe a big break? Very unfortunant and sad...
>
>Chuck "freelance artist since 1973" Schmidt
>South Pasadena, California
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 14
>From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: RE: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:16:08 -0700
>
>OK, what I wrote was way overstated, opinionated, confrontational, biased,
>ill-thought-out. To those of you who love your late-model De Rosas and
>Colnagos (and every other brand I slighted by implication), I apologize.
>
>Those brands maintain a consistently high level of framebuilding excellence
>that, even if I'm right that it's not as good as it once was, is better
than
>most in the world. And they still have their unique style.
>
>And it's unfair of me to slam Colnago for what the guy in the video says -
>what he says has nothing to do with the craftmanship or the ride, and I'm
>only reacting to the (probably bad) translation anyway - I'm sure it
sounded
>better in Italian.
>
>I still don't like carousels though...
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle, Wa USA
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 15
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:15:31 -0700
>From: <siverson@garlic.com>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]Re: Rauler/ Yoshi Kono Allez
>
>In the 70's there was a pro shop near the campus of San Jose State
>University called Shaw's Lightweight Cycles (San Jose, CA). Terry Shaw
>sold quite a number of Rauler bikes from there. The ones I saw were
>painted blue with yellow lettering and trim. I don't remember any with
>ornate or chrome lugs.
>
>-----------------------
>
>I have an opportunity to purchase a Yoshi Kono (San Rensho) frame and
>fork presented as a Specialized Allez circa. 1983. It is offered from
>a Specialized employee who purchased it new; he tells me it was made
>for Specialized by Yoshi Kono as a trade show display bike. It is a
>lugged frame constructed of Ishiwatawa tubing and originally set up
>with a Super Record group; but my vision for this bike is to restore it
>with period Shimano or Suntour parts to make it an "all Japan" bike.
>
>I would welcome input as to what would be an appropriate group
>including handlebar, stem, and seat, to install on this project. I am
>very familiar with 'classic" European, and in particular Campagnolo
>products, but I know little or nothing about Shimano (Dura-Ace?) or
>Suntour (maybe they were even out of business by then) products from
>the early 80's
>
>Note: If you perceive this project is outside the pale of the CR list,
>please respond to my private email as posted in the header.
>
>Thanks
>
>Erik Siverson
>Gilroy, Cal
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 16
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:41:56 -0800
>From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Subject: Undeliverable: Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo
>
>Jim, my post to you bounced so I'm posting to the group... hope this
>isn't a problem... Chuck
>
>Subject:
> Re: [CR]Talking about builders, Ugo in specific
> Date:
> Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:25:49 -1000
> From:
> Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> To:
> stigbyj@lake-erie.navy.mil
>
>Jim Couch wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I don't believe that Ugo everdid much Tig work, From my
>understanding
>> his son Christiano was the one who learned how to TIG initially and later
>trained
>> theother workers to do so. I doubt that Ugo was directly involved in
>building at
>> all by the time Chris got over their to teach TIG.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Couch
>> Tacoma, WA USA
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I shook hands with Ugo on many occassions and his hands were huge and
>rough... they looked like tools! And I was pretty good friends with
>Chris, so I got the looong story.
>
>Of course, I've been told that the condition of a person's hands tells
>you nothing about what kind of work they do...
>
>Ugo always looked to me to be a guy who loved to work, but I have never
>visited his shop and don't know his three sons either.
>
>Regards,
>Chuck
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 17
>From: Roadgiant@cs.com
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 04:36:22 EDT
>To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]Old bikes vs New bikes
>
> I've been thinking about the generational differences between old
bike
>lovers and new bike lovers and I think it comes down to whatever you first
>saw when you came into the hobby. It's like musical tastes a bit, one is
fond
>of the music one grew up with.
> I got serious about cycling about five minutes after seeing Breaking
>Away in August of '79, and if someone had come up to me then and said that
>the pinnacle of lightweight bikes was something from 1958 I would have
>laughed. I wanted what Dave Stoller was riding, what Bernard Hinault was
>riding.
> So it makes sense that someone today would like the new stuff. Only
>later, with education and perspective would the whole range of classic
bikes
>become of interest if at all.
> But just today I was in a bike shop looking at a carbon fiber Look
>frame with Campagnolo Record carbon fiber bits and threadless stem and
fillet
>brazed joints, spoke nipples in the hubs, 16 spoked wheels, and I was
staring
>at it and looking closely and trying to understand how we came from Super
>Record to here. How this bike evolved from what I knew to be beautiful and
>functional to this machine in front of me. I left the store bewildered and
a
>little like the turn of the century man I've found I've become. I felt out
of
>my time and frame of reference.
> "Dang, that horseless carriage is noisy but folks seem to like it. I
>don't see much use for it myself, nor to flying neither--if that's even
>possible"
> And I wonder, too about the exposed cables protruding out from the
>brakes of the Shimano STI. If they can hang in the wind can't the brake
>cables be freed from under the oppression of the handlebar tape? And as
much
>as I wondered at just how different this machine looked from my bikes---
>
> ---I still wanted to ride it.
>
>
> Scott Smith
> Perfect LA day (if you weren't an oil refinery that is)
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>End of Classicrendezvous Digest