Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE

(Example: Racing:Wayne Stetina)

From: "A Taylor" <ataylor@grolen.com>
To: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <moos@penn.com>, "Bicycle Classics inc" <bikevint@tiac.net>
Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <3.0.32.20010629114835.006a27b0@pop.tiac.net> <3B3DEAB3.730407F3@penn.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:49:54 -0400


When you consider the alternative of the day, those 27" "high pressure" tires, a tubular wheel set was much lighter. I raced on tubulars (like everyone else) in the 60s and even rode on them every day. We never went in for this gluing ritual that has built up. A new "tub" would be installed dry and inflated to full pressure overnight to stretch it, then disassembled and given a layer of cement, and let dry. A fresh layer of glue added and then reassembled and inflated. Roadside replacements relied on the glue left on the rim and tire from before. I must admit, roll offs were not unknown. Tony Taylor


----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry & Liz Moos
To: Bicycle Classics inc
Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE



> All this talk about gluing technique, particularly applying multiple coats to
> the rim, plus at least a layer to the base tape, curing overnight, inflating
> tire to medium pressure, waiting again, then finally inflating to pressure,
> makes it obvious why, as Mike points out, clinchers are so popular. My
> understanding of why tubulars were developed to start with, or at least why
> they dominated in Europe for so long, is that they were easy to change on the
> road without tools. However, this would be no advantage if one had to follow
> this elaborate gluing technique when changing a flat. In pre-WWII photos one
> sees even big stars with spare tubulars wound around their shoulders - no team
> cars with spare wheels in those days. I assume when they had a flat, they
> changed the tire themselves, with the tire held on only by air pressure and the
> old glue on the rim. Yet they no doubt often made steep Alpine and Pyreenean
> descents on the spares. Doesn't this call into doubt the need for the
> elaborate gluing rituals we use today?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> Bicycle Classics inc wrote:
>
> > I noticed that there are some fans of Clement red. My understanding is
> > that Clement red is usually quite good - but we've had some over the years
> > that was simply evil.
> >
> > We would to the glue on base tape, bunch of glue on rim thing. And then a
> > final thin coat and quickly put the tire on. The tire would then, for a
> > couple of days, feel as well glued as anyone could imagine. Seemed like a
> > job well done!
> >
> > Wrong - another couple of days later, give the tire a hard tug, and the
> > tire would pull cleanly off the base tape! Very little if any would stick
> > to the tire base tape at all!
> >
> > The culprit our wise guru Paul LeMaire told us, was that the batch of
> > Clement tires we were using had the base tape impregnated with something
> > that repelled the glue! Other glues worked fine on these tires, but not
> > Clement. (Vittoria red or clear worked like a charm). Also, the Clement
> > glue, if I recall, might have worked OK with other brands of tires, but I'm
> > not sure.
> >
> > Now, one is supposed to prep the tire base tape prior to gluing, but in
> > practice this seems to be rarely necessary (we tend to get our tires glued
> > on too hard if anything so we're doing something right).
> >
> > The upshot is that at least the batch of Clement red we were using would
> > not stick like other glues. We couldn't sell the stuff when we discovered
> > that, and we simply put the remaining inventory in the trash.
> >
> > To make a long story short, if you use Clement red test the tire really
> > hard everyday for quite a few days (before each ride is a good idea) to
> > make sure you don't have some of the evil red.
> >
> > These days we simply use Vittoria clear (the Mastik one stuff) and are very
> > happy. And yes, tires can creep. The best we can advise is to be sure to
> > use both front and rear brakes evenly and try, if posible, to work on
> > cornering technique so you need less braking (a big deal here in Boulder
> > with the mountains).
> >
> > If it all seems like too much of a hassle, try some of the sweet clinchers
> > on the market. We're using them more and more and are even feeling less
> > guilty about admitting it.
> >
> > Mike Kone