Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE

(Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer)

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:39:22 -0400
From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
To: A Taylor <ataylor@grolen.com>
Cc: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE
References: <3.0.32.20010629114835.006a27b0@pop.tiac.net> <3B3DEAB3.730407F3@penn.com> <002301c1022c$55948d60$6a1fb1d8@vaio>


I also stretch new sewups dry on a rim to make them a bit easier to install. This is not such a pain, though, since one can do it well in advance of use at one's convenience, and one doesn't create a mess doning it, as no glue is used. Clinchers, as you say, are much closer to tubulars today, both in performance and weight.

Regards,

Jerry Moos

A Taylor wrote:
> When you consider the alternative of the day, those 27" "high pressure"
> tires, a tubular wheel set was much lighter. I raced on tubulars (like
> everyone else) in the 60s and even rode on them every day. We never went in
> for this gluing ritual that has built up. A new "tub" would be installed dry
> and inflated to full pressure overnight to stretch it, then disassembled and
> given a layer of cement, and let dry. A fresh layer of glue added and then
> reassembled and inflated. Roadside replacements relied on the glue left on
> the rim and tire from before.
> I must admit, roll offs were not unknown.
> Tony Taylor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <moos@penn.com>
> To: "Bicycle Classics inc" <bikevint@tiac.net>
> Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]EVIL CLEMENT RED GLUE
>
> > All this talk about gluing technique, particularly applying multiple coats
> to
> > the rim, plus at least a layer to the base tape, curing overnight,
> inflating
> > tire to medium pressure, waiting again, then finally inflating to
> pressure,
> > makes it obvious why, as Mike points out, clinchers are so popular. My
> > understanding of why tubulars were developed to start with, or at least
> why
> > they dominated in Europe for so long, is that they were easy to change on
> the
> > road without tools. However, this would be no advantage if one had to
> follow
> > this elaborate gluing technique when changing a flat. In pre-WWII photos
> one
> > sees even big stars with spare tubulars wound around their shoulders - no
> team
> > cars with spare wheels in those days. I assume when they had a flat, they
> > changed the tire themselves, with the tire held on only by air pressure
> and the
> > old glue on the rim. Yet they no doubt often made steep Alpine and
> Pyreenean
> > descents on the spares. Doesn't this call into doubt the need for the
> > elaborate gluing rituals we use today?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> >
> > Bicycle Classics inc wrote:
> >
> > > I noticed that there are some fans of Clement red. My understanding is
> > > that Clement red is usually quite good - but we've had some over the
> years
> > > that was simply evil.
> > >
> > > We would to the glue on base tape, bunch of glue on rim thing. And then
> a
> > > final thin coat and quickly put the tire on. The tire would then, for a
> > > couple of days, feel as well glued as anyone could imagine. Seemed like
> a
> > > job well done!
> > >
> > > Wrong - another couple of days later, give the tire a hard tug, and the
> > > tire would pull cleanly off the base tape! Very little if any would
> stick
> > > to the tire base tape at all!
> > >
> > > The culprit our wise guru Paul LeMaire told us, was that the batch of
> > > Clement tires we were using had the base tape impregnated with something
> > > that repelled the glue! Other glues worked fine on these tires, but not
> > > Clement. (Vittoria red or clear worked like a charm). Also, the Clement
> > > glue, if I recall, might have worked OK with other brands of tires, but
> I'm
> > > not sure.
> > >
> > > Now, one is supposed to prep the tire base tape prior to gluing, but in
> > > practice this seems to be rarely necessary (we tend to get our tires
> glued
> > > on too hard if anything so we're doing something right).
> > >
> > > The upshot is that at least the batch of Clement red we were using would
> > > not stick like other glues. We couldn't sell the stuff when we
> discovered
> > > that, and we simply put the remaining inventory in the trash.
> > >
> > > To make a long story short, if you use Clement red test the tire really
> > > hard everyday for quite a few days (before each ride is a good idea) to
> > > make sure you don't have some of the evil red.
> > >
> > > These days we simply use Vittoria clear (the Mastik one stuff) and are
> very
> > > happy. And yes, tires can creep. The best we can advise is to be sure
> to
> > > use both front and rear brakes evenly and try, if posible, to work on
> > > cornering technique so you need less braking (a big deal here in Boulder
> > > with the mountains).
> > >
> > > If it all seems like too much of a hassle, try some of the sweet
> clinchers
> > > on the market. We're using them more and more and are even feeling less
> > > guilty about admitting it.
> > >
> > > Mike Kone