[CR]Re: Scotchguard (OT)

(Example: Framebuilding:Norris Lockley)

From: "Dennis Ryan" <sublithic@hotmail.com>
To: youngc@NetReach.Net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, rbyrne03@snet.net
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:34:15 -0400
Subject: [CR]Re: Scotchguard (OT)

Actually, Soctchguard will be around for decades, even if it is taken off the market today: http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/04/04112001/pfos_42961.asp

Let's hope the stuff in Scotchguard isn't harmful because it's too late if it is.

PS I second the welcome to Peter, a fellow Connecticutteer (I'm a Kentuckian by an accident of geography)

Dennis Ryan Louisville, KY Concerned, but not an eco-wacko (I prefer Rivendell's elves to ELF's)

>From: youngc@NetReach.Net
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "J. Peter Weigle" <rbyrne03@snet.net>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Frame Saver and saving frames
>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:08:54 US/Eastern
>I agree with all of the points that you Alan makes below. However,
>won't be around much longer because 3M has pulled it off of the market.
>Nonetheless, one must take the cautionary notices on product labels with a
>grain of salt. Some have been more heavily influenced by attorneys than
>Peter: A hearty welcome to the list!
>Charlie Young
>Honeybrook, PA
> > Hi All,
> >
> > The fuzzy thinking about Frame Saver to me is that we all are
>preservationists here, and
>as such we ought to be interested in anything that will tip the balance in
>favor of the
>bicycles we love. If any of us were at the Cirque and saw a frame we
>at a table
>and looked it over carefully and another was right beside it, identical in
>every way. . .
>But wait! What's that in the BB? That film of - could it be -Frame Saver?
>blackish hard waxy film characteristic only to FS.) Which of us would have
>hesitate on
>that choice? Which of us would not actually pay more for it if the other
>left the
>all too common red-brown powder on the finger that probed the inch or two
>the inside of
>the frame that can be inspected? What of the parts we can't see?
> >
> > This isn't about frames that have "holed" from the inside already, but
>keeping it
>from happening in the first place! If a frame does not actually get a hole
>it, does
>that make any internal rust O.K.? On old high wheelers the first thing you
>is rap on
>the backbone. If it sounds dead it's a death nell, even if it looks
>And they
>are thick tubes. Yours arn't. You don't put Scotch Guard on after the
>or exposure
>has ruined the fabric, but to prevent it. Likewise with why you should use
>Frame Saver as
>prevention, but Frame Saver also has much MORE ability to slow or halt an
>condition (if it has been caught in time) than LPS-3, or used motor oil, or
>40, or
>what-have-you on frame innards, or than Scotch Guard on fabric. BTW, ever
>the label
>on the Scotch Guard your wife uses? Read the label, it's NO DIFFERENT!
>Neither is
>silicon spray, or wood stain, or ... you name it. But an ounce of
>keeps the
>frame from the landfill and makes the future a little brighter for our
>and even
>increases your frame's value.
> >
> > The gas pump we all frequent (ever read the warning label on all gas
>or the WD-40
>we clean gunk off with, or the paint stripper Jim Cunningham uses, never
>the paint,
>are all WAY toxic. But Jim, or Brian, or Peter all use a primer or
>based, not
>on its toxicity, but on its effectiveness. The environmental impact of
>Saver is
>minute compared with the paint process even in these low VOC regulated
>And if it is
>your own exposure you worry about, do it outdoors. I'm sure there are many
>more constant
>sources you never question, like pumping gas, or burning it...all the time!
> >
> > Doing ONE application of Frame Saver will offset more potential damage
>loss than any
>other use of a petroleum based product I can think of. It is a small dose
>very high
>effectiveness. It is better because it is done once right.
> >
> > I've been talking to Peter Weigle about this discussion and am pleased
>he will be
>joining us on the list. Lets all welcome one of the finest frame builders
>the world,
>and a true preservationist, whose passion for restoration work led to the
>introduction of
>Frame Saver for people like us.
> >
> > Hope this helps more frames live longer,
> > Alan Schaeffer
> > Danielson, Ct
> >
> > RE;
> > From: "Alan Schaeffer" <bikes@neca.com>
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:03:51 -0400
> > Subject: [CR]Frame Saver...and the horses mouth
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I use Frame Saver because it is NOT like the other stuff, and because I
> > prefer to do things right once rather than over and over. I think there
> > is some fuzzy thinking here, but, just to be clear, I've gone to the =
> > horses mouth and asked Peter. My thoughts will follow.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted.
> >
> > Alan Schaeffer
> > Danielson, CT
> >
> >
> > From: "Douglas R. Brooks" <dbrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Re:Framesaving gunk?
> > To: beyerc@mailserver.volvo.com (Chris Beyer)
> > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:35 -0400 (EDT)
> > Cc: wyoung@stonehenge.ca, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >
> > FrameSavingBOBs,
> >
> > I'm going to go out on a limb here...
> > I don't leave my bikes out in the rain and while I ride in
> > the rain, it is with fenders and I get to bring the bike into
> > the dry and wipe it off before I go inside. Now
> > I think that with a proper fendered bike in rainy weather zones
> > FrameSaver, etc, is not worth the toxicity
> > and the mess. FrameSaver proper is VERY nasty stuff, very toxic.
> > I think it's not good to be around. Other stuff may be less yucky
> > but dang if it isn't messy too. I can tell you that Jim Cunningham
> > doesn't use it and that other masterbuilders have told me the same
> > thing, that it's not critical.
> > I have several 25+ year old bikes, none are rusted, none from
> > the inside out. ALL have seen crappy weather and bad days.
> > So, my two cents is that I was on this wagon and now am
> > happy to be off: experience suggests that the problem is not
> > a problem for me and that the costs, environmentally (to MY environment)
> > are not ones I want to accept.
> >
> > rust never sleeps, etc., but methinks this is
> > not the issue some think it is, but of course you may
> > have a very different experience and have bikes in MUCH wetter
> > climes without being able to wipe them down, so to each his/her own,
> > Douglas Brooks
> > Canandaigua, NY
> >
> > > Warren:
> > >
> > > Framesaver. Nothing else comes close as far as tenaciousness......
> > >
> > > (I suspect that it's repackaged Waxoyl.....)
> > >
> > > Chris Beyer
> > > Bloomfield, NJ
> > >
> > > Warren Young wrote:
> > >
> > > > Whatt are you folks using to coat the inside of your frames? Motor
> > > > oil...white grease...crisco? What's your favourite procedure?
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > >
> > > > Warren Young